Co-founders of Notable and Co-creators of NotablePress, Thomas McGee and John Meese dive into their offering designed specifically with content creators in mind. Today they talk through the strategy behind creating a new publication platform for creators, and share a preview of some of the Notable Pro features to come.

Mentioned in this Episode:
NotablePress | Notable

John Meese 0:24
Thomas, thank you so much for being willing to join me on this podcast. How are you doing today?

Thomas McGee 0:28
Doing great. Thank you so much, john, I appreciate you having me.

John Meese 0:31
It was my pleasure. And I've been looking forward to this, based on some of our conversations over the past really several months, you know, not quite a year, but on this project. But before we dive into that, though, is supposed to be helpful for us to start and make sure that everyone who anyone who's listening has a good idea of who you are. So you, Thomas, you and I started working together, I guess it probably would have been five or six years ago, I think does that sound roughly about right?

Thomas McGee 0:57
Yep. It sounds right to me. Yep.

John Meese 0:58
Okay. So you know, and we and just the genesis just a, we won't spend our whole time on the history of Notable, but for this purpose of this conversation, you know, I can trace that back to you and I initially connected around the Get Notice WordPress theme. I was creating a course teaching people how to use that theme. You were creating child themes for the Get Noticed theme. And then we started talking and just said, Well, what why don't we just, you know, no offense, Michael, because Michael Hyatt was behind the get on Steam at the time. But we had some ideas of kind of like how we would do things a little bit differently. And so, you know, we connected and ultimately created what at the time was called Notable, Notable Themes, you know, to partner with different, I guess, you could say influencers or creators at the time to create custom WordPress themes for their audience. And that, you know, became a side project for the both of us for a little while, before I took a full time position working with Michael Hyatt, ironically, running Platform University. And then I, you know, sailed off into the sunset and gave the reins of Notable Themes completely back over to you. But then just this past year, we reconnected and revived that old partnership after about three years, and we both have developed a fascination that ultimately led us to creating a brand new product, NotablePress, which we'll talk about today. But uh, that's the genesis of our collaboration and now business partnership, but would you do me a favor and just share a little bit more about, you know, kind of the before and after that in terms of what you've been up to professionally? And kind of, you know, what your focus has been for the last several years?

Thomas McGee 2:29
Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, that's a good recap of kind of, up to this point. I know, it's, it's kind of like fast forward through history type, bird's eye view, but no, very good recap of kind of how things have gone for Notable Themes now Notable, but yeah, so for me, the last several years outside of, of Notable Themes, or now Notable has been largely in the space of developing and designing WordPress websites. So for me, I've kind of seen the, from the perspective of being able to see kind of under the hood of a lot of creative professionals, and a lot of entrepreneurials or professionals in general, kind of getting a back like behind the scenes look of how they run their business, on the web. And the sense that getting the opportunity to actually through my other business Ralien Company actually being able to work with clients, one on one, to get a better understanding of their businesses, kind of how we can help them grow their email list, sell more products, get more clients, that sort of thing. But what's interesting now of having all that kind of knowledge, or that experience of working with all those individual professionals, you start to see now some commonalities, some threads about what each of these individuals need in their website, what kind of makes them sing what makes them successful, what makes them stand out, apart from those who maybe less so. And so I think that's what kind of started to spark the idea of creating a theme that fits the mold of so many of those creators. And that's kind of where NotablePress kind of sprung into action. And we kind of started to work together on that. So it's been an interesting journey, but I'm really excited to see where it goes.

John Meese 4:14
Yeah, me too. And I'm really excited about this. And you know, I've already started using oneo initially the beta but now the public version of NotablePress on my own website and John Meese calm and so it's worth saying this is technically a WordPress theme, so familiar with WordPress, you know, this is a WordPress theme, but we're not really leaning, focusing on that. That's sort of kind of like a I wouldn't say it's an afterthought, you know, it's but it's, it's, that's a strategic decision that like, first and foremost, we decided we wanted to create a content publication platform for content creators that had the really the a lot of the tools built into it that you as a creator need. And that's something that hadn't, you know, we didn't feel like really had existed in this version before that and so it happens to be that WordPress is in our opinion, And at this moment, the best possible platform to build that inter- that interface on. And so yes, we built this as a WordPress theme, but we're not really like competing with other WordPress themes on like the WordPress theme marketplace or anything like that this is really in a class of its own. And so I probably could first to talk about that a little bit. But first, let's emphasize about your own experience. Thomas, you know, you, as you mentioned, you've been working one on one with clients for years. Some of those, by the way, you know, it's worth mentioning that we've had a lot of crossover in the sense that even though we weren't business partners for a period of about three years in there, we were also still working together, where I hired your right through Platform University to do this projects there. You work with Michael Hyatt on some on some projects as well. And then you've worked with other clients, you know, Ray Edwards, any specific clients, you want to mention that we're not trying to name drop here, but I think it's helpful to show that like you do, you've worked with some very experienced platform builders or professionals or creators.

Thomas McGee 5:54
Yeah, so you actually have worked a little bit with Grant Baldwin also works with Jeff Goins. Those are mainly on like, some of our partnerships with notable themes, but also worked with a company called Filmpack had the opportunity to help them build out an online kind of shopping system particularly for they do stock video. So very high quality stock video, also had the opportunity to work with Amazon to on a project for that was a video related project. So yeah, had large and small many scale had the opportunity to work with lots of different businesses with their brand on the web.

John Meese 6:30
Well, that's cool. So taking that and talking about Let's talk for a minute about what we're doing with with Notable and so our website is, that's a new chain, we used to be Notable Themes. But as you can kind of pick up in our conversation moving forward, that we really want to move away from themes, plural, and being really a part of what we're building. But first, it's worth mentioning that if you're not familiar with Notable Themes, I was just looking back to see how many we created 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Well, currently, there are still 10 WordPress themes available on the Notable website. But I know there's a couple that have kind of already been sunsetted over time that are exist. They're like mid tourists. And was it the headline theme was a call if it was Yeah, there was one called headline. That's right. Yep. Yep. So I think I think that makes it 10 themes, probably. And then six, at least six WordPress plugins. So we've created multiple WordPress themes and plugins, and you're the designer and the developer. And I'm the nerd who likes using WordPress plugins and themes and critiquing them and so and also I like selling them so so we make a good pair, but uh, you know, that's been the feed the past of notable themes has been this, you know, 10, WordPress themes, six WordPress plugins, I mean, multiple products, and we're really going a very different direction moving forward and leaning heavily into Notable- NotablePress as the core of our business. But before we talk about NotablePress itself, I'd love to pause for a second and talk about creators because that's not a trend that we can take credit for. But it's definitely a trend that's happened, that's changed a lot in just the market the world. I mean, it's really kind of a miracle, if you think about it, that all the powers that be have more or less agreed on a single term creator to refer to a class of people. Now, they don't know how to agree on the definition of that. But but like YouTube has their Creator Studio, Facebook has their Creator Studio, you know, Tik Tok, they even you know, it's not just the companies, it's also the users. I mean, people will refer to like news companies will refer to Tik Tok creators, I mean, that's like the category of people who create content and make a living from that. So Nathan Berry, who is the founder of ConvertKit, who they and they've really set their company up to serve creators and help creators build an audience make a living online, they actually actually worked on a definition of the term creator. And so I included this definition in one in my book, Always Be Teaching: 50 Illustrated Insights and How to Grow Your Business by Creating Content Online. But I wanted to highlight that definition real quick, because I think it's helpful just to start our conversation that Nathan says, he defines a creator this way. A creator is any person who creates original work to teach, inspire or entertain a dedicated audience of fans. So I think that's what we're talking about today. How does that definition of creator sit with you, Thomas?

Thomas McGee 9:23
Yeah, that's a very good way of encapsulating it, I think. And the interesting thing, I think, as well is that the number of creators that we're seeing is now growing exponentially, right? I think that's, I think what's interesting is now that everybody starts to see that they have the ability to create to become a content creator, is showing people that you don't necessarily have to go through the gatekeepers anymore. I think that's one of the amazing things about the internet, particularly the past 10 years, is the fact that for most people, the whole the only way that you're going to, you know, get noticed the only way you're going to get an audience you could kind of be a creator with an audience would be to have a radio show or a TV show or to have to be to star in a film. And that's just no longer the case, really, anybody with a smartphone can start creating content. And I think that's one of the amazing things that has been provided to each of us. I think that where you and I come in John, is that we're starting to show people kind of a new avenue where they can share that content without having to go through what's becoming the new gatekeepers, which is a lot of social media platforms.

John Meese 10:31
Yeah, let's talk about that for a second. Because just from like, the philosophy of the internet, you know, that was part of the reason why the dawn of the internet age was so exciting was because of this, you know, anybody and everybody can skip the gatekeeper. I mean, it used to be that if you wanted to publish a book, I mean, you literally had to just get in line with a publisher, and hope that they picked your book, to appear on bookshelves all over the world, for most of the history of the written word, that was how books were published. But with the with really the rise of self publishing technology, you know, now you don't really have the same filter, you know, gatekeepers, you know, you can, you can go and create a book and publish it. And you have to do the hard work to actually build a dedicated group of fans, a dedicated audience. But you can do that, I mean, that that power is within your control. So that's one of the things that is most exciting about the internet is that it kind of it really, you know, levels, the playing field in many ways by get by removing those gatekeepers. I mean, once upon a time, the gatekeepers keepers were like, the king, I mean, it was literally like, if you wanted to get a proclamation out there, you had to go to the king and hope he would he liked your idea enough that he would do it. And so over time, we've had less and less gatekeepers and more just availability of everyday people to be able to share what they have to say. And I hope that that resonates with people. I think that's a wonderful thing. That's I mean, that's one of the cool things about the internet, social media. You know, the, the promise of social media is pretty cool, which is this idea that you can connect to everyone on the planet directly on these platforms, whether it be Facebook or Twitter, or Instagram, you can share snippets of your life or your business and create with them. And you can build the group of fans on social media. And so there are some good things about social media. But one of the biggest problems just from a philosophy of the internet and of information. One of the biggest problems that especially the rise of social media brings is the reintroduction of gatekeepers. And this has been something I've been saying for the last five years with Platinum University, it's been something that I've been saying on a weekly basis, regularly. And so this is not a new thing by any means. However, a lot of people suddenly realized that social media platforms were gatekeepers, for the first time right at the beginning of 2021. So this is interesting. We're talking about this timing wise, Thomas, you know, right, after, you know, basically all these gatekeepers started to flex their muscles a little bit. So I don't want to spend too much time talking about that, because I know that people have, you know, well, I think it's worth talking a little bit about it, just just just to kind of make it clear, like philosophically where we stand as far as the internet goes. So but I'd love to give you a chance to speak into that, Thomas. I mean, what do you think when you think back on, you know, just the last several weeks, I mean, you and I happen to be together for a partnership retreat, the day that Twitter blocked the President of the United States from permanently ever, ever accessing his Twitter account, and then proceeded to immediately blocked 70,000 Twitter users who they had flagged as, you know, providing misinformation or or, you know, being on the fringe the same day that, you know, Facebook, you know, blocked the President of the United States's account, and then a lot of other conservative accounts. And, you know, then it just became kind of spiraled from there. You know, like the kind of like, the the efforts to censor across the board. What's, what's your take on all that?

Thomas McGee 13:55
Yeah, I know. It's it's one of the it's a very, like, hot button issue. But yeah, I think So the big question, maybe some, some folks may, you know, particularly if you're a creator, if you're a business owner, if you're a person making content right now, perhaps, maybe you're in the boat, where you see some of the people who are being banned or censored or who are having like, demonetized or throttled or whatever word you want to use to say that their access to to speak on that platform is being in some way diminished. You might say, you know, what, I 100% agree with what they're doing right there. I don't I don't think they should be saying that. But then you have to ask the question, what happens a year from now? Or maybe even a few months from now or maybe next week when they do that to you? Right? I think that's the question we as creators never really ask. And I think that's the thing that we have to be very careful of is because if they have the power to censor this person, then they have the power to censor us. And so if that's one of those things that we are building our business on, that means that overnight, we could have that business or that portion of our business shut down which I I think that's a lot of power to wield. Right? So that's the thing. It's like who's to say that Twitter? Does Twitter have a group of medical experts, for example, that are authorities on who is or is not correct on any given topic? And, you know, the larger question would be so like, why is that you know, your place like, that's why we talked about in the past, like, nobody like chimes in on a phone call and says, Sorry, that information that you just provided on flu vaccines is incorrect. You know, it's it's one of those things where people are left to make their own decisions. So I think that's a big part of why we're so excited about a platform like NotablePress, because it just allows people the freedom and the control to write to produce audio to produce video on a platform that they own, and they control. They're not to worry about any, you know, overlord saying what they can and cannot say,

John Meese 15:56
Yes, well, you know, I'm sure we could spend our entire podcast episode just talking about the social media situation. And I don't want to do that I don't want to really derail a conversation that way. But just to say a couple things on it. I think that the reality is like, it's not really a question of whether or not we agree with specific things that individuals said at this point, you know, the bigger question mark is, okay, so now that the social media companies are big on flexing the gatekeeper muscle a lot more, you know, it's really just a question of, do you have the popular opinion today? Because if so, you're probably safe today. But as soon as the winds change, that may not be the case. And I think the reality is like, you know, I actually, I don't I mean, there's the people have tried to educate me on like the complexities of the US tax law around like social media companies and how they're classified, I'm not really interested in that. I believe in a company's like I can I can support and defend a company's right to choose their customers, and also disagree with their decision. Right. Like I can say, like, I think that they made a lousy decision. But I also think that they should have the right to make a lousy decision. But I also think that there's a lot of people who were banned who have said some really stupid stuff on the internet. And I think they should be allowed to say stupid stuff on the internet. Personally, I think that part of this is like, is a philosophy, philosophical stance for the greatness of humanity, then take just taking a stance to believe that individual people can make choices about what they choose to believe or not believe or follow or not follow. And even when that's difficult. So that's what kind of led us into NotablePress. Well, that's not really I guess that was the genesis of x, we started building this long before that became a hot topic in the news. But it's definitely you know, this core idea that we want you to have direct access to your audience, right, we want you to be able to build a platform that takes some of the best of social media, some of the best of engagement, some of the best of dynamic content, content publication, but takes that onto a platform that you own and control, so that you get to call the shots, for better or worse, because you have to call the shots according to what people actually want to be able to grow an audience, right. Like, I mean, it's not like I mean, you can technically Do whatever you want your website. But if you go, you know, if you go a little crazy, you're just not gonna get anyone's attention. And so like, you know, you still have to actually, you have to create real solutions to real problems for real people. And you have to create content that's engaging in a way that grows your audience, but we want you to be able to grow your audience. And that's kind of the core behind it, it will press so so what is it about press Thomas?

Thomas McGee 19:02
Yeah, absolutely. So NotablePress, in essence will at its very core, it's a WordPress theme. But that's not really what we're kind of hoping to showcase it as in reality, it is a Publishing Engine, right. So it's a place where you're going to publish written articles, or blog posts, or you can publish your podcast or you can publish regular videos, or a combination of all three. And beyond that, it's also at its core, a membership platform. So it's a place where you can offer all of your content for free. Or you can say that maybe specific videos or specific podcast episodes are things that you have to pay to have a membership and it's all integrated with stripe and it's set. It sets up very simply and easily. Essentially, the whole one of the thinking behind NotablePress was not only did we want it to be kind of just a blog, right, because there's been a million of those created throughout The last, you know, 10 years or so, instead, I wanted it to be kind of a content engine that rivals some you can think of it kind of like a miniature Netflix, right, you pay your Netflix subscription, and then you get access to a whole library of content, I wanted everybody to be able to create a platform like that. So that again, it doesn't have to be you don't have to be producing films, you could be writing on a specific topic, you could be doing research, you could be an independent journalist, you can be reporting on a specific topic, and maybe some of your writings you would like to monetize. So whether you want to monetize your content or not, the idea is that it is a publishing platform for anyone.

John Meese 20:44
I love that that's a great way to describe it, Thomas. And I think let's, let's talk about that and unpack that for a second. So it's a content publication, you know, engine or a public publishing, you know, press on the internet. Now built on WordPress, it's probably important as to say why WordPress, you know, why not Squarespace or Wix or something really cool like that?

Thomas McGee 21:04
Yeah, what goes along with the philosophy that she outlined here a little bit earlier, which is that we wanted to keep gatekeepers out of it, right. And so it takes a couple of extra little steps to get something like NotablePress up and running, since it is up. Extensive is on WordPress, but it is on the self hosted version of WordPress. So what this means is that somebody who would use it would go out to one of dozens, if not hundreds of hosting options available today, they would sign up for an account, they would set up a server on their account. And all of these hosting companies make that very easy. And then they would install WordPress, and this theme on that WordPress. So that's kind of the technical aspects of it. The reason why I say that is because doing that process actually does put you in control. The problem with a another hosting company or another website service, is that similar to like Twitter, or similar to YouTube, that company is hosting your content. And since they are carrying the burden of being the host, and because they have built the platform itself, which is hosted, they get to dictate what is published on that platform, they get to say, yeah, we don't really like your opinion that you have stated right here. So we're gonna go ahead and remove that. Or we're gonna go ahead and add this disclaimer to it, if you are the one hosting it, if you're paying for the hosting, and the platform that you're using is software that you're installing notable press is not something that we control the content of, we don't control what is published on it. And you get to say what's on there, and nobody has any other say so about it, right? So obviously, there's libel laws that you have to follow. But in terms of the content, the the actual platform itself, you own it, and you control it. And you get to dictate what shows up there.

John Meese 22:55
Yeah, and I think that's important to highlight, I think we should also probably couch this and like, just back up for a second and say like, Well, okay, even just a month ago, the idea of like someone censoring your content wasn't as much of a hot button button, but like, we're talking about social media sites, for a second kind of harkening back to that, even when they don't censor your content, they still control how it's delivered. And so like, the actual, like, the algorithm can change often, which all of a sudden, really used to be once upon a time, every single person who follows your Facebook page, whenever you posted something they all saw, right? I mean, that was back in the dark ages. And so since then, it's become very more algorithmic, and towards more like, you know, Facebook, as an example, is predicting which content is people are going to like or engage with. And you know, you know, you're lucky if somewhere between four to 10% of your followers end up seeing something, you post something on something like Facebook, and then we just kind of take that for granted now. But if you think about it, that means you're kind of getting like throttled like your access to your audience is throttled by about 90%, which is pretty intense. And so with, it's when we're when we're talking about gatekeepers, I think it's important for us to say it's not just about censorship and whether or not they agree with your opinion, although that currently is a very relevant issue. It's also about it's just about you controlling the customer experience in terms of how people and consume your content, how they get to engage it, gauge with it, how it what it looks like, how often it appears, all those things are all part of owning their own platform. But But WordPress, for anybody who's not familiar with it, I think, as a non technical person, as a non developer, I can explain a little bit that it's also it's an open source program or software in the sense that if, like the company who created WordPress, if you know automatic because the name of that company, the company that created WordPress, if they were just to go under tomorrow, like the company ceases to exist, they go bankrupt, and they changed all their policies. WordPress would still exist out there on millions of websites that are all independently run and operated without that central point of failure. That's not true for Squarespace or Wix with they've got like an HQ. And all it takes is one board meeting for them to double their price or change their feature set or close the company in a way that would affect users and customers. So yeah, so that I think that's, that's why NotablePress is so important. But Thomas, you refer to like the fact that you can publish both, you know, blog posts and podcast episodes and videos on notable press, that multimedia thing. You know, that's pretty cool. And I think that's something that's, you know, important because as mediums become more and more popular, what about the homepage? I know, we've talked about this before. So what's unique about the homepage on NotablePress?

Thomas McGee 25:39
Yeah, so I think that's where this stands is kind of, it fills a need. I think that's been there for a long time, because your choices have either been to do something like you know, create a YouTube channel and then create a, you know, an Instagram page, which we're not saying you shouldn't, we're not saying you shouldn't have those things. But there's never your only other alternative really has just been to create a blog, right. And then that blog just shows like a list of your latest posts. Now, WordPress even has the ability with basic blogs, to embed a video or an audio file in there, right, but it's not very user focused. So with NotablePress, we've kind of redesigned that front page, or homepage, to be to be something that's very powerful from a user experience, particularly for people who are there to consume your content. So obviously, this is audio, so we can't really go through and show you one. But some of the basic pieces that are built in is, for example, we've got a nice hero section that shows up first that tells people exactly who you are, what you do, and kind of the benefit there is to knowing more about you with a nice little subheading, two calls to action, whether that's to sign up for your membership, for more content to join your email list, whatever that would be, whatever you action you would want people to take. And then below that, we would actually we've actually got a section that shows your featured piece of content. So whether that's your latest or a sticky piece of content, as we like to call it, that you want to show up for long periods of time, kind of the first thing you want people to see as they show up. And then alongside we also worked in the the ability for it to show trending pieces of content. So it actually calculates which pieces of content are accruing the most views over the course of a week, and they show up as trending. So you will sometimes see this on things like news websites, you'll also see some social media platforms do that. And then the what we what's really unique about it, and something that we've been really excited about is your ability to create and configure your own custom content rows. So you can kind of visualize it this way, think about if you're on if you're on Hulu, if you're on Disney plus or if you're on if you're on, you know, Netflix, they've got all these rows. And each row is a specific row of different types of video content, right. So that's going to be maybe it's episodes of this show, or maybe it's shows on this topic comedies, right? We've actually incorporated something similar where you can create your own rows that can be anything you want. They can be you know, video audio and written of a specific category on your site, then you can have a row of just your videos, a row of just your podcasts. And so it's something that somebody can just kind of scroll through and see at a glance kind of what it is that you're creating. It also connects to YouTube, so it can pull in your latest youtube videos. But it's just exactly that type of content that you want people to see to give them kind of that user experience as opposed to that long scrolling list of random content that's ordered by nothing but date.

John Meese 28:44
Yes, I think that's really important. And I think that it's also important to just compare that to other apps that people use to consume content, because the reality is people, I don't know the exact number off the top of my head. But you know, people that people open the Facebook app or the Instagram app, and they refresh dozens of times a day, because it's a new fresh experience. But right now, if you have a website, you're listening to this, you have a website, think why would someone come back to your homepage and refresh it? Right. And for most people, there's not really a good reason a lot of times your homepage is it's either one of two extremes. It's either a very static page that's just got like a basically, it's kind of like a long sales page for you your business that's kind of like about all the things you offer. Or it's your latest content. And it just automatically updates whenever you publish new content. But either way, that's not a very intentional design for repeat viewers. And so with this homepage, it's designed to be fresh and dynamic so that people will come back multiple times and to your homepage because it'll show the content that's trending as well as the recent content. But the the the homepage area, and by the way, we should say that this is meant to be very simple like in other words, like there's we're explaining some complex concepts. But it's all designed to be drag and drop, you know, you select an option from a menu and boom, it's done. Like you're not nobody, you don't have to code anything to build this website out. It's all designed for you. We've done that hard work for you. I say we, so I can take partial credit, but Thomas has done all the hard work for. But Thomas want you to talk about the dynamic nature of that homepage area for a second. So what are the different ways that the homepage area can change based on either something I as a creator, I'm doing or based on You know, what somebody's done on my website in the past?

Thomas McGee 30:31
Yeah, no, that's a really good point to highlight. So one of the cool things that john was mentioning is the fact that not only is that front page, you know, very customizable for me, you as a site owner experience, but it's very dynamic from the user experience. So for example, like John mentioned, you'll see a lot of these sites out there. And for a long time, they've been good practice, you know, for a lot of people who are building their own business soon on this long front page that says, like, Hi, I'm Bob, I make stuff, here's how to get my free ebook or something like that. And then it's just like this long page about Bob. And maybe it'll have like some different elements of things he's created. But like john said, it doesn't make any sense to say Hi, I'm Bob, every single time I visit that website, it doesn't make sense. At that point, if I already know who Bob is, why do I want Bob to keep telling me who he is every time I visit the front page. So it's built into NotablePress to save again, following that example, hi, and Bob, this is what I create. But you can actually there's a setting that's built into NotablePress to have that disappear. The second time somebody visits the site and instead show that person's latest content or highlight, you know, the the featured or sticky posts or what's trending, so they can see what everybody else is reading, or they can see what everybody else is watching or a conversation that started that's getting a lot of comments. And then beyond that, let's say that you're somebody who likes to stream on either twitch or on YouTube. The cool thing that we've got worked in is integrations to both. So if you go live on your YouTube channel, it's automatically going to embed at the top on your front page, your live stream in chat, so that people who visit your site can see exactly where you're live. That way you can send people to your front page, your home, you can send people to your homepage, instead of to YouTube. Or if you happen to be on Twitch, you can send people to your homepage, instead of to Twitch. And then when she ends your broadcast that goes away, and it just goes back to its normal state. So a lot of features that we've kind of thought through john hit the nail on the head when it came to the big difference between say, for example, a Facebook and between most like static websites, is that most static websites give you no reason to refresh the page. Whereas NotablePress does.

John Meese 32:42
Love that. Yeah, and and we're still not like, our goal here is still not to get your users to refresh the page 47 times a day. And so it's not designed to be constantly changing based on algorithm, but is designed to remain fresh based on whether someone's logged in or not based on whether someone's been to your website in the last seven days or not, based on how content changes each day. And based on what's trending based on whether or not you're live on Twitch or YouTube. So I yeah, so I think that's great. That's so NotablePress, you can learn about it at, this is still new, we have dozens of users who sign on for the beta, end of last year, we rolled out a beta version. But now this is publicly available. And we have more people signing all the time. And we're looking to, you know, for more users not only use it to give us feature requests for what needs to change, but also to showcase it in the wild, because we think this is a beautiful part, you know, it's a beautiful design for a platform that's gonna allow you to publish your content, grow your audience, and do so without having to pay, you know, five to $10,000 to hire a custom developer, like Thomas, but to be able to get a much more affordable approach to the actual platform itself. So I want to think through NotablePress for a second what else we're working on right now, that's not that's not readily available, because this is something we're really committed to continuing to build out. And so is there anything you can share Thomas that you're working on behind the scenes in terms of kind of new releases coming down the pipeline for NotablePress that could maybe supplement that or add some complimentary features to the actual experience?

Thomas McGee 34:13
Yeah, so I know, you and I had had a lengthy conversation about kind of the direction of the product and you came up with an idea, which I thought was priceless. And that is something that we're hoping we're we're actually in the process of developing now are add-ons to the theme that can help you take the experience even further. So one that I am actually in the process right now of creating is one called landing. And so like John mentioned, we've created a lot of other themes in the past kind of standalone themes that were all designed to help you kind of handle a lot of the different marketing or you know, online business type aspects of your business. And so like, for example, we had the landing theme, we had the launch theme for doing product launches, we had the bookstand theme, but instead we're kind of shifting away from making those standalone themes while they will still be available as standalone themes, instead, they're going to become add ons for notable press. So for example, let's say that you're creating all this content on your Notable- your NotablePress site, and it's going great, but then you realize, you know, what I've got a launch coming out in a couple of weeks would be great if I had a landing, or better yet, maybe, let's say that you, you still need a landing page for your opt in for that your email list that you're trying to grow, maybe you've got a video series that you provide for people, or maybe you've got an ebook, those things are still very important. And it would be wonderful, instead of having to have another third party account somewhere else, you know, to build out all your landing pages to just be able to create and build those landing pages right on your notable press site. And so one of the things that add on will enable you to do is create pages on your site with your custom URL, that are long form landing pages that connects with ConvertKit, or your email marketing service, and then be able to build out launches with the launch add on or a book sales page with the bookstand add on. So that's kind of the goal, the future of this is to have this, add its course be a content creation, membership engine, but then being able to push it any direction you want to moving forward. So that's that's kind of the vision moving forward with NotablePress something I'm pretty excited about.

John Meese 36:25
I'm pretty excited about that, too. And I think it's worth mentioning that our goal here is really like just to meet for your website to meet the needs that as a as a creator, as a modern creator, what you need, you know, and so like a lot of those things that in the past, you had to get, you know, a half dozen different pieces of software to pull that off. And so, you know, we wanted to keep the core software as simple as possible, because if you're a new creator, well, yeah, you already even if you're just not even a new creator, let's just say you're newly shifting from your focus on maybe in the past, you've only focused on your social media audience on Instagram, or Tiktok. And now you're kind of moving to having a website and an email list as part of that, well, whatever, whether you're brand new, or whether you're you know, shifting to more focusing on that, the core of NotablePress has everything you need to get started. And so we wanted to keep that simple. But these add ons allow you then to kind of like turn them on when you're ready for those extra features. For a more complicated, and I don't mean that in like the user experience perspective, but a more advanced like sales page builder, on, you know, on one of those landing page builders, or to be able to sell your book and have like a template designed for that, all that good stuff. But that's the kind of stuff that like let's just name names for a second, I mean, historically, you would need to use something like Patreon for the actual membership component, or, you know, there are lots of other platforms that do that. And, um, podia really focuses on memberships, for example, or mining networks. But in addition to that, I mean, when you talk about the landing page builder, I mean, that replaces lead pages, or Click Funnels, which are very, you know, can be can be become very expensive software. And then the, we think what else like? Well, some of that stuff just doesn't exist, like the launch theme, like the one with like the where we have, we have an add on that allows you to build like a three part video series, kind of like the whole structure out there for a multi part video series. It's all leading up to a launch. There's not really another solution out there that does that very well. I mean, that's one of the things that there's a Product Launch Formula is a marketing strategy that Jeff Walker teaches, that's all about this three part video series at the core of its strategy. And if whatever reason, there's not a great software out there that does that I've seen people do it on LeadPages. I've seen people do it on Click Funnels, but it's kind of a hack. And this is done, you know, really ready to go templates. So you can kind of just plug the videos in, plug the sales page link in and you're good to go. So I'm pretty excited about that, that as those add ons continue to grow, that allows us to continue to add, really, you know, use cases for how people can leverage NotablePress but without having to complicate the core product itself. And and we should say our goal here is not to nickel and dime people by creating all these different add ons, you know that there there is a different cost involved with developing and supporting those. But that's what we have our Notable Pro subscription. So NotablePress is an option by itself. But we also have Notable Pro ga talk about that real quick, Thomas and what Notable Pro is.

Yeah, absolutely. So Notable Pro essentially is kind of the all encompassing membership that enables you to kind of get access to everything right. So everything NotablePress, so you would get access to notable press and then all the extensions that we create. So right now as it stands, we're still developing those various add ons. So it's one of those things that obviously, there wouldn't be any new add ons to get access to right now. But in the future, the goal is to have all these different add ons created and then you get access to them. And what we typically do with Notable Pro because Notable Pro as it stands right now gives you access to NotablePress, and then all of the other accompanying themes, which is still great and still something that we're going to continue to support moving forward. But in the future Notable- Notable Pro is something where you'll get access, you'll You'll have that membership get access to those extensions. And then once we get, we create a new extension. The way we do it is we wrap you in. So usually typically what happens is Notable Pro gets so extensive with the amount of things that we include with it that we have to gradually rise, raise the price. But what we do is we'd say that well, if you've already you kind of get grant you get locked in once you subscribe to Noatble Pro. And then if we release a new add on, you get that add on. So right, yeah, really excited about that. But yeah, it makes it simple, makes more affordable for you to just kind of have access to everything rather than having to purchase them all individually. If that's not something you'd want to do,

For sure. Well, I'm sure we could talk more about this. But this is definitely one of those things that's best seen. So I would say first of all, you can just, you know, poke around if you want to see a showcase of notable press in the wild. But then if you want to learn more, go to notable dot press. And you can learn all about noble press and kind of the what we're building and try it out for yourself. And so, Thomas, any initial, you know, final thoughts you want to share before we wrap up for today?

Thomas McGee 41:07
Yeah, I guess there's probably one little piece I also kind of forgot to mention on the previous add-on conversation that we had, is something that I think is really exciting and will be exciting for content creators is the ability to livestream. Right. And so one of the add-ons that I'm going to be developing here very soon is one that's based off our theme called broadcast. And one of the things we're going to be building into that is the ability to live stream without a third party, big platform. So you could live stream using something like Amazon s3 or Backblaze b2 but the bottom line is, it'd be a live stream that has a chat and your live video feed that you are in complete control of no ads, no extra banners, nothing else that you're used to with most live streaming services, just you and your chat, something that's built right into your website. So there is nothing else like that on Earth. So something else we're really excited to be enrolling here, hopefully pretty soon for our content creators.

John Meese 42:09
Yeah, that's a great point. I'm glad you brought that up. And the bra and broadcast ad currently as a theme, but soon to become an add on broadcasts has already one of our, you know, better offers and the fact that it replaces your webinar platform, it allows you to basically instead of having to send people to zoom, or to crowdcast, or to go to webinar or whatever, whatever software you're using for, like a webinar to create, you know, have like a live video presentation where you end up selling something at the end, usually, instead of having to send them to to kind of like, you know,, you know, seven to three exclamation point. Instead, you get to send them to your website, and then it's like it's on it's part of your brand, it's part of your experience, it's a video, it's a chat that already exists, although currently you do need to integrate that with something like YouTube or twitch to actually pull off the webinar functionality. But in time, as Thomas mentioned, the plan is for us to develop that in such a way so that you can have, you know, essentially your own live streaming video platform built into your website, your kind of a, you know, where you can be a one man or one woman show if you want. So that's pretty exciting. Well, thank you, Thomas, so much for your time today. I appreciate you jumping on here and sharing some of this. I'm sure we'll all have you back on sometime in the future for us to kind of check in on how NotablePress is doing but I wanted to make sure that we got a chance to talk about it right here on Survive and Thrive.

Thomas McGee 43:27
Thank you so much, and I appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me.

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John Meese is the author of the #1 bestseller Survive and Thrive: How to Build a Profitable Business in Any Economy (Including This One). An entrepreneur himself, John is on a mission to eradicate generational poverty by equipping entrepreneurs with the tools and training they need to build thriving businesses from scratch. He is the CEO of Cowork.Inc, co-founder of Notable, and host of the Thrive School podcast.

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