Ryan Daniel Moran is a serial entrepreneur, investor, and the author of 12 Months to $1 Million: How to Pick a Winning product, Build a Real Business, and Become a Seven-Figure Entrepreneur. In this interview, Ryan Moran shares his experience with COVID-19 and what he sees on the horizon in a changing, reshaping economy.

John Meese 0:01
Ryan, how are you doing today? Thank you so much for joining me.

Ryan Moran 0:03
Hey, John, good to see you again. Thanks for having me.

John Meese 0:06
Well, I'm glad to have you here. I'm looking forward to this conversation, both selfishly because I always enjoy when you get a chance to chat. But also because I think that your perspective is really important for every entrepreneur that's listening to this interview. So but before I go too far into that conversation, let me just pause and ask to you to actually introduce yourself a little bit and I really want to know Ryan, not just what your title is, but what could you go to bed in the morning?

Ryan Moran 0:35
Oh, man, I just didn't see that comment and it struck my funny bone and I decided to laugh.

John Meese 0:41
Good.

Ryan Moran 0:43
You know, it's funny, you should ask because I feel like I am in I'm in between two like times of meeting in my life where the things that I used to find really meaningful are no longer meaningful and I'm looking for new things to find Meaning in. And so what gets me out of bed right now is like the exploration of new things that feel purposeful to me because the old ones have died off. And I think there's there was like, has been a period of the gap in between where I didn't want to get out of bed in the morning. And now it's more what gets me out is like, the excitement of the the quest to find new things that are interesting and meaningful. And eventually, it'll be that I'm getting out of bed because those things are meaningful. I just don't know what they are right now. Well, let's,

John Meese 1:35
let's unpack that a little bit. Because that's, I mean, obviously it The world is in transition right now, but it sounds like so is Ryan. So let's talk about that.

Ryan Moran 1:42
Aren't we all...

John Meese 1:44
Yes,

Ryan Moran 1:44
All the time.

John Meese 1:46
But uh, so what kind of things are you exploring currently? And what are you coming out of? I mean, I think you've got a couple fun projects, including you actually just had a book come out. I mean, let's not. Let's not skip past that. So what kind of projects are you currently exploring in your effort yourself? To find meaning?

Ryan Moran 2:00
So let's, let me phrase it this way. I mean, I am. I'm the founder and the CEO of capitalism.com, which is the coolest domain name and also the most vague domain name because it is like what what is capitalism.com? Yeah, you have my attention now what that was it and, and where I started that business and that project was that I wanted to publish all of the how to part of building a business and becoming wealthy. And the irony of it is, I'm at a point in my life where doing that no longer feels meaningful. Because what is more interesting to me, is how money shows up to support impact and meaningful projects. So if you and if you if you teach somebody how to make a lot of money, but you don't change their mindset, there's really no point to it. It just Kind of accelerates their own, their own path of whatever they're on. And so I'm in this transition personally while also navigating the, the, the practicality of running a business that is very driven by teaching people how to build businesses and make money and also being uninterested in talking about money. I'm much more interested in uncovering what is behind the individual and the change that they want to create and how we create the systems and the structure to allow that change to come from, from within them out into the world, which is the actual purpose of money. I mean, money shows up when there is meaning that is shared with the world that other people find valuable. As when you you produce enough value that other people are willing to part with the way that they trade which is which is dollars, or Bitcoin or seashells or whatever we consider money however we trade and so I am navigating the person In the professional challenge of now moving away from the conversation of money and into a conversation of meaning, while also intellectually knowing that they're the exact same conversation, so it is really changing my perspective on my role in the unfolding of entrepreneurs and have the next era of capitalism in in this period of my life,

John Meese 4:26
Hmm, interesting. Well, if there ever comes a day where you decide that domain is no longer relevant, just send me the authorization authorization copy. Happy to take that. Let me when I mentioned when I was talking to a friend, I was like, Oh, I'm gonna go interview Ryan Moran for a podcast and he was like, Who is he? I was like, Oh, he owns capitalism.com. He's like, Whoa, I mean, they don't know anything. I don't need to know anything else. It's just like, like you said, it's a real it's the coolest domain name in the world own. They don't need to know anything else about what you do. They're just like, that's, that's legit.

Ryan Moran 4:55
Yeah. And part of part of like, my transformation is recognizing how powerful that word is because it polarizes people and leaning into that, I think up until recently I have I have. Well, I mean, I will I will debate capitalism with anyone who asks, and I will do so persuasively. I have a very high persuasion rate even on the liberal of liberal liberal, the most liberal of liberals. But I am now kind of leaning into that being a much broader word than how, how I think most people view it. We all kind of have our perspective on it. But it's a it's a heavy word that contains our relationship with money. It contains the purpose of entrepreneurs, it contains politics. It's a big meaty umbrella of a word. And I am now just discovering that I can kind of lean into the depth of that conversation. Whereas before, I think I was just so focused on empowering people who wanted to take the first step of entrepreneurship that I missed, or wasn't seeing or or enjoying the unfold Have all the other pieces of it.

John Meese 6:02
Interesting. Well, how do you have a official, an official Ryan definition of the word capitalism currently?

Ryan Moran 6:09
Well, I mean, my official Ryan capitalism is kind of a, an extension of what Hayek said, which is that capitalism is simply the system where a great number of strangers work together. And that's what it is, is, is people voluntarily working together to solve problems and to meet our needs. And that's all it is. And and, and that requires it and it reflects the people who are involved in the system. And so often we want to change the people who are in the system. But the beauty of capitalism is that it's a direct reflection of who's in the system. And the only way that you can change the system is by changing yourself is the only way that you can change the whole thing. You have to change yourself first. And we live in this world in society now where we so good desperately want to change everybody else but ourselves and psychologists would call that projection. We want to change the world to meet how we see it rather than changing ourselves and thus changing the world around us. But it is literally the only way that you end up creating change. And so those who have resistance to the idea of free markets or of capitalism are actually projecting something within themselves that they want the system to adjust to. But my official definition is that it's just a great number of strangers that are working together.

John Meese 7:30
Hmm. Well, I love that. I'm also observing to the fact that 21 interviews in you're the first guest to quote an Austrian economist on my podcast, which mean I made a mistake at some somewhere along the way

Ryan Moran 7:41
Someything went terribly wrong.

John Meese 7:43
Terribly wrong. took this long for someone else to quote an Austrian economist in conversation. So but good, well, that's appropriate and so practically speaking, so I'm sure someone listening to this is saying, well, like okay, but like, I'm still kind of confused Who's this Ryan guy. So you you've clicked around, but you've been texting Predominantly historically, I mean, where you kind of rose to success was through Amazon. It was through Amazon distribution, right, like selling products on Amazon at scale is that fair to say?

Ryan Moran 8:10
So that I mean more context to that is that I'm a majority of my wealth more than 70% of my wealth came from building one business that I started with $600 and it took 60 to 70% of its sales on amazon.com. And I built and sold that business for a nice eight figure payday. And that's kind of what I'm known for is like a lot of my story got picked up in in that, in the Amazon world, but I've never considered myself an Amazon seller. I'm a business right builder. So for example, this morning I recorded I recorded a video in which I gave my my plan, I rolled out my plan to my followers who are curious of how my next company will hit. $100,000 runs Rate within the first year, probably less. And the, like the first stage was we'll launch on Amazon. And then the rest of it was had nothing to do with Amazon. But I still think to this day to most entrepreneurs who are selling something that that you can touch or taste or smell, Amazon is the best place to get the first sale and to get the first reviews and to get the first transactions and to build the first piece of momentum. It's a great first step, but it's just one piece and a very large overall unfolding of a successful business. But I am known in that world because one of my businesses that was very successful took the majority of its sales there.

John Meese 9:41
Right? Well, and since then, you've started capitalism.com, you've got to kind of have your own private Podcast Network of sorts. You've got the 1% membership site right Am I missing anything? I just want to get a snapshot of kind of what you've been up to I mean,

Ryan Moran 9:53
I I invest in other mostly physical product brand

John Meese 9:57
Capitalism fund, right?

Ryan Moran 9:58
Yeah, I have a fund called the capitalism fund where I invest in companies that I know I can impact. It's kind of like my Shark Tank. And those are mostly physical product brands. I prefer consumables and food or supplements or beauty or something that has a recurring customer base. I and I am the world's biggest Cleveland Indians fan and I will be devastated if they change their name.

John Meese 10:21
Okay. Oh, well, we won't get into that too much on this podcast. Yeah, obviously we can I guess, but then on the I haven't. I have enough difficulty managing the controversy of masks in my area. So

Ryan Moran 10:38
Well, then, let's say this the the Cleveland franchise was the first major league baseball team to have a Native American player on their team. And he was a polarizing player. He was very popular in Cleveland, he was polarizing elsewhere. And as a way of both honoring him and trolling other teams, they changed The name to the Indians, which is what a lot of outsiders called them. So that is without any judgment, the situation of how the name unfolded.

John Meese 11:10
Well, with a little bit of judgment, that's pretty cool.

Ryan Moran 11:12
So I share, I like the story.

Well, and then what and then your book just came out when we did that actually released, I launched 12 months to 1 million on May 5 of 2020. And I think we sold a few thousand copies, 111 reviews, 107 of them are five stars. And it's been it's just been a blast to release and to talk about.

John Meese 11:36
That's great. Well, good. Okay, so thank you for helping me set the stage for a little bit. I appreciate that. I understand. You're kind of got a lot of projects going on. So but let's talk about COVID-19 for a second other than masks, and go back to not may but all the way back to February or March. I'd love to know just your personal experience. Do you remember where you were what happened when you first realized that COVID-19 was a real threat something more than just another headline?

Ryan Moran 12:00
Yeah, I do. It was when my best friend called me, and he was prepping for the end of the world. Okay. And that's when I was like, maybe I need to be taking this much more seriously. And he was stockpiling supplies, and he was pulling his money out of the stock market. And he was preparing to hunker down and not see anyone for the next year or two. Okay, that was the first time that I was like, well, snap, maybe I'm under estimating under estimating this thing. And then I kind of got caught up in the looking at charts over and over and over again and having an emotional reaction to the chart is when I started to see that exponential curve tick up. That's when my brain said this is going to spread. And so I remember I was in my house in Austin, Texas, taking a call from my best friend, and then over the next few days, watched the curve grow and that's when I went Oh, snap.

John Meese 12:59
Okay, So this was probably, I appreciate the family friendly. Oh snap, by the way. I imagine your reaction may have been a little more visceral. But so but that was this is the beginning of March then probably judging by that, that factor sharing because I think March uh, probably early March, that was when the who announced that there was a global pandemic and the US declared a national state of state of emergency. It was about right.

Ryan Moran 13:23
It must have been because it was just after the announcement of the cancellation of South by Southwest here in Austin. Yeah. Which is huge, which it's, it's it is absolutely huge. I mean, businesses depend on that here in Austin. And when it was cancelled, I was like, you've got to be kidding. You just absolutely got to be kidding me. You cannot shut down people's lives like this. And so I was still in the like, what's going on? Like, what are people so freaked out about? And then, so and then it was after that that Mark called me and it was I got it. Got my attention.

John Meese 14:01
We had similar uproar when mule day was canceled in Columbia, Tennessee where I live the mule day, the annual You know, you're familiar with, I'm sure that we're the mule capital of the world.

Who doesn't know that? Of course.

So yeah, our annual mule day festival was canceled for the, you know, first time in like, 150 years, that was definitely a that was the moment everyone locally was like, well, shucks. But, um, so as a business owner, how did you respond to that? I mean, you've got a couple different irons in the fire, and you also advise different businesses. So when you see this going on, of course, the the charts are scary. And your friend, I hope he's okay, you know, is kind of often where and we'll talk to him in a couple years. As a business owner, how did you respond to that?

Ryan Moran 14:41
So there's two ways that we could take this. We could talk about how I reacted, or we could judge how I reacted or we could talk about where we go next.

John Meese 14:52
Well, that's helpful. I my goal here is not never definitely not to judge her behavior, because no, I mean, I mean,

Ryan Moran 14:56
I haven't yet judged if I've responded in the right way. I don't know, I just responded with the best way that I knew how at the time, which was to try and find a way to be there for our customers, and to serve our customers on the journey ther're on, while also feeling completely inept and helpless in trying to do so. But my whole focus goes to Okay, what do our customers need? How can we show up for them in a way that makes them feel a little bit empowered during this time? And how do we communicate and talk to them during what is an uncertain scary time? Well, I also feel uncertain and scary and scared sometimes. And so there is the very real challenge of being there for them also navigating your own stuff that's going on. Yeah. And so so I did the best that I knew how to show up for them while also navigating my own journey. The way that we did that was just by being really present with our customers and trying to over communicate with them. And we did send out emails saying, here's how we're responding to COVID-19. I thought that was really overplayed. But we did show up for them and just tried to be a calming voice and then otherwise chaotic world. And that meant since I'm a personality on capitalism.com that meant me going live much more often. And much may be creating more content that was rational and calming. Rather than warning about the potential downfall, it was trying to see the opportunity in all this it was trying to highlight the positivity that would come from this even if we couldn't see it right now. It was trying to be a counter voice in a world that was feeling very chaotic, even though it was hard to see it at times.

John Meese 16:56
Well, on that note, you may or may not have already seen this. This is very new but the you know, when all of this crisis started, talk speaking in nerdy economic language for a minute, when all of this this started, then some economic groups came out and they said, Hey, we're gonna, you know, this is actually not just a recession, we're calling this the great lockdown let's we'll go in history books, this is like, you know, unprecedented. And then the World Economic Forum just came out and they said, You know what, actually we're renaming this, this is the great reset. So that's what they're calling is the great reset that the reality is, you know, decades of change and technology that was already gonna happen. Got expedited. Yeah. Someone turned it off and turned it back on, you know, that we so we've got, we've got a little reset going on right now. So why don't we talk about that for a minute, cuz that's one of the things that you've talked about publicly. Throughout this crisis. As you and I are talking, it's the beginning of August. And so I know you've already talked whether it's I think I saw you posted something on LinkedIn, an article that you wrote there and then I did a video as well about what in what you see as industries that are changing that are either going away completely are changing dramatically. And so let's just talk about what goes what comes next from here because I didn't recognize that a lot of this is speculation, but it's educated speculation. I mean, we're saying like, you know that there are some clear changes that are happening. When you and I are talking, by the way, it's very different from some of the interviews that I was having two or three months ago, when it was still like, you know, the pandemic had just become a word in conversation that you would casually mentioned, like, Oh, yes, we're in a pandemic. And so now we're, you know, this is just part of a way of a third of a year into the pandemic. We're a little bit more situated to it. So what do you see as the biggest changes on the horizon as part of the great reset, do you think are worth paying attention to for entrepreneurs?

Ryan Moran 18:39
I think we're freeing up a tremendous amount of resources that are going to get reallocated. I think we I think we have cleared out a whole lot of physical space. I mean, retails online now. Period, end of story. You either pick it up, or you order it online, even Walmart shoppers, are now buying online. It's like that. And the innovation curve. They're the laggards, that the people who resist change. Walmart shoppers are now going online. And so what is what we have freed up in that is a whole lot of space. I mean, we are free we're going to free up so much space when it comes to, to commercial space, office space, retail space, and that's going to go to distribution and residential. Because people are going to want bigger spaces, they're going to have more more homesteading, more land, bigger homes, return of suburbia, and there's going to be a move out of major cities and a freeing up of office and retail to be repurposed for distribution and for residential and so we have a freeing up of like, Did anybody like going into the office? And I got the other side. The other thing that is just over, it's done. Did anybody think college was working? Was anybody looking at this going like, this is, this is worth our time, like this is worth going and not this this, this is working. No, everybody knew that there were there were challenges and there were problems there. And everybody knew that that was the case in the work space as well. And so we're just seeing a lot of resources being freed up, we're seeing a lot of industries that weren't as efficient as they could have or should have been, be freed up to be focused elsewhere. I think that we're seeing a lot of, we might call them luxury goods or like nice to haves that are going to go out of business and be freed up for things that are actually productive and meaningful. And so I think, in the short term, we're in for a lot of pain through this reset, but through the medium and long term, we mean it's going to have such amazing implications for where we put our resources into, I think the greatest period of expansion ever and to say that after, like, right on the heels of the greatest time of expansion ever, is saying something. And so I do not share in the Austrian economists view that eventually we'll have to pay the piper and it's all going to come crashing down. I think that it is always a process of getting more and more efficient, and certain systems and structures come crashing down. And they act as the fertilizer for the next round of the innovation and growth. And that is just a, a never ending cycle. And I think right now we're just in winter of things dying off and eventually there will be spring again,

John Meese 21:45
A lot of fertilizer that may be Yeah, it's interesting metaphor there, but it makes sense. Okay, well, selfishly, I hope one of the things that goes along with that change the describing is also A change in office demand, you know, since I did start a coworking space the beginning of the year. And I think that could be true, because I think everything you're saying makes sense. But I also think from my own experience, I know working from home doesn't it's kind of overrated for a lot of us. And that, you know, so I think there's probably going to be a pendulum swing of people going into working from home and then saying, Well, I don't want the old office, but I don't want to work from home. Maybe I'll go join John's coworking space.

Ryan Moran 22:24
Well, here's how you can here's what would be my recommendation if I was running a co working space, is give them a reason to get out of the house. Give them a reason in the form of classes or collaboration or curation. The people, you you encourage collaboration, you bring in other opportunities that wouldn't exist if they were to stay at home, you teach classes, you do something that makes it beneficial for them to get out of the house to where they can logically justify it. And if you do that, then I agree that the pendulum is actually going to be it's going to be people moving out of the corporate environment to their homes, and some people making that work and say somebody will saying enough of this, my kids are screaming, and I gotta go somewhere. Right. And so your job is to call those people to you.

John Meese 23:17
Yeah, I like that. And I think that's true. And I think at the coworking space industry, I think one of the things we'll see is that the coworking spaces that will thrive the most coming out of this, are as you describe the ones that are doing more than just saying, We're the modern landlord, they're the ones saying, like, we've got some sort of, you know, focus of who our customer base are, we've got some sort of focus to the type of events we have. That's right. At my co working space, if you walk by in the street, you can't help but see to the giant class windows on the ground floor, this sign on the wall that just says entrepreneurs welcome in like huge in your face letters, which is a very kind way to say non entrepreneurs not say that but but but that you know, draws for us that draws the right the right crowd, you know, so that's kind of part of our commitment to that team. Yeah. So I think that's really cool. So what other industries Do you see changing dramatically coming out of this? And what opportunities do you see as well? I mean for because, I mean, there's there's been, there have been a lot of business owners who are having to revisit their whole strategy. And there have been also a lot of people who never would have considered being an entrepreneur. I mean, this is just like 2008 all over again, where there's like massive industry shifts, and people who thought their career was stable are now saying, I've got to rethink everything. And so what kind of opportunities do you see in this new economy that's forming out of the not the ashes anymore? We're gonna change our metaphor, and now it's forming out of the fertilizer.

Ryan Moran 24:36
Well, I'm I'm biased, but I think if you sell anything physical online, you're in a really good spot. I think the there's still demand to buy, but people don't want to leave their homes and people there's also demand for newness but people don't want to go shopping and so selling anything physical online that you can you can demonstrate newness or novelty in the form of a Facebook ad or an Instagram ad or or tik tok or what or whatever is it's easier and more beneficial than ever to get that in front of people and you have their attention because content consumption is as an an all time high. And so we it there's also a reduction of ad costs, which I never thought I would see again, we have actually have a lower cost of advertising. This is completely unprecedented. So we have more demand, we have less supply, we have less competition, and we see more people consuming the type of content or an advertisement could exist for I think selling anything physical online, you're in good, you're in a good spot. I think that coaching especially if you have an extremely targeted market, it you're in a really good business right now. Group coaching is such a timely business model right now. becoming an expert at something where you can guide people through transitionary times will do extremely well. I think that there is going to be a huge demand for people to learn to be entrepreneurs. I think streaming and virtual reality are all about to boom. You know, I'm a baseball fan. I said this at the top of the top of this chat. Um, but I have never been less interested in a baseball season. I am not interested in the 60 game season. If the Indians win the World Series, I'm not even sure it counts. I have said if I was the owner of the Cleveland Indians, or in charge of Major League Baseball, I would making a very hard pivot to virtual reality right now. I would much rather be watching the game from the catcher's mitt, the catcher's perspective and hearing the conversation from the dugout or from a YouTube streamer than I would watching my MLB subscription app or even watching it on TV. This is how I would like to enjoy the consumption of the game. And I might like that better than going to the game. Or I would at least say like, this is so enjoyable and I want to go see it happen in person. But I think a lot of industries, Major League Baseball included are trying to, like, hold off until things go back to normal, and we are not going back to normal. We're only going forward. And so anything that can be streamed will be streamed. I don't think we're gonna see mega churches come back. I think Joel Olsteen is now an internet pastor. I think the church is going to go micro. I think everything that can go micro will everything that can go streaming well, and we are now seeing basically all big systems and structures crumble and become fertilizer for the next wave of things to grow and get big again. And so I those are the things that I see shrinking and growing in the next chapter.

John Meese 28:13
That's interesting. Well, what advice do you have for the business owner who's listening to this right now who already has an existing business and they're trying to figure out how to adapt or pivot or build a profit business in any economy, including this one? What advice do you have for them about where to focus their efforts and attention,

Ryan Moran 28:32
you have to get super curious about who the customer is, and where they are and the overall journey that they're on. You have to get super curious about that. Because the minute that you think that the way you've been serving them is the best way you've lost. You're now vulnerable to other people who can do it faster and the up and comer who has come out of this age group, preparing for this time you're vulnerable to the person who has been streaming or is on the new platform that has been growing, and is now prepared and ready for the conversation that's already been happening in their circle. One of the things that is going to really help a lot of business owners during this time is realizing that attention will be at a premium. So your best customers will be willing to pay more if you are willing to listen and cater your products and services to what it is that helps them on their journey. So the more curated your attention becomes, the higher the price comes. A lot of business owners are used to large distribution in retail, Walmart places a big order or Amazon places a big order, or they're used to selling wholesale or they're just used to operating at big scales, and they're seeing that erode the solution. That is to completely flip the model is to get very targeted in a group of people and find out exactly what they want what the journey is on and then triple the price. And that's that's how we're going to get through this. I mean, if you think about, for example, um a liberal arts degree, we all know is toilet paper. But we all well,

John Meese 30:22
careful there toilet paper has actually been very valuable

Ryan Moran 30:26
well played. Yeah, but that degree no longer has the same value that we that it was when it was created, because a liberal arts degree is available for free on the internet. But I train entrepreneurs, and I charge the same amount of money as a liberal arts degree. But I am instead of graduating with $100,000 in debt, they graduate with a profitable business. I have become very targeted in who I help on a very specific journey. And I therefore have fewer clients than a university, but I have much higher profit margins. And all businesses are going to have to think like this. Who are my best customers and my best people? And what's the thing they actually want? And how can I create a product or a solution so good, that they're willing to pay three times the price for it because it helps them get to where they are, rather than where I think I want to be the purpose of business or the purpose of capitalism is for strangers to come together to work together and serve one another. And so your job as a business owner right now, is to unthink about what you get out of it and start thinking about how you come together to serve the people that you legitimately enjoy serving. Because if you can focus on your best clients that you love to work with, and you do that for long enough, they will pay three times the price that you think you can charge right now. That is our job right now. to pivot from one of scale, to one very focused, very result driven, very customer driven operations. But what will happen in the, this the second part of this, like that's right now, it's what we have to do right now. But what will happen is that technologies and innovations that we can't see right now will allow you in your genius to go at scale again. A good example of this, like somebody who is ahead of this is Tony Robbins. Tony Robbins started as the very focused coach back in the 70s. He then took the platform that was available at the time, which was infomercials, and he went super broad. Then he went to in person experiences, which were intimate again, and then those got super big and they were conferences, and they scaled again. Now the entire conference model has been turned on its head. So what does he do? He goes to streaming which feels very one on one when you talk about zoom Call, except his zoom call was a ginormous jumbotron that made it feel like a huge experience, but it was beamed into the person's living room. The next chapter will be virtual reality where you can now strap on a set. And you can see people around you at the Tony Robbins conference going rah rah rah. And you can be face to face with Tony. And everybody can be face to face with Tony. So what he has really done is has gone super micro and focused and then scaled, and then brought the model back to micro and scaled. And so our job right now is to go back to that micro focus. And three years from now, there will be new innovations and new marketplace demands that will allow us to scale that, but we can't scale what doesn't work. And a lot of models right now no longer work in this context. And the way that we make it work again, is to get super customer focused in a way that allows us to raise our prices once we prove that what we've got allows them to take the next step in their journey.

John Meese 34:03
Wow. Well, that's phenomenal advice, Ryan, I appreciate you sharing that. And I know that's gonna be helpful to so many people who hear that. So thank you for sharing. I'm sure you and I could actually probably talk for another hour or longer. But that's a good book. And so let's kind of put a pause there. Maybe we'll we'll circle back for a follow up conversation once the world, you know, moves on to the next crisis. So where can we find you and learn more about you online? In the meantime,

Ryan Moran 34:25
My website is capitalism.com. I post a lot of content on YouTube. I'm just my name on YouTube. And my favorite place where I publish content is my podcasts, which is called capitalism.com.

John Meese 34:38
Great. Well, thank you, Ryan. I appreciate your time. Please keep in touch.

Ryan Moran 34:39
Thanks for having me. I appreciate your Thank you.

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About

John Meese is the author of the #1 bestseller Survive and Thrive: How to Build a Profitable Business in Any Economy (Including This One). An entrepreneur himself, John is on a mission to eradicate generational poverty by equipping entrepreneurs with the tools and training they need to build thriving businesses from scratch. He is the CEO of Cowork Inc, co-founder of Notable, and regularly publishes interviews and insight at JohnMeese.com.

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