An entrepreneur since 14, Dylan Ogline, founder of Ogline Digital shares with us how to balance business and lifestyle on purpose. By setting expectations for others and yourself, you can change the definition of work structure and your business to give you the life you want.

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John Meese 0:25
Dylan, thank you so much for joining me today. How are you?

Dylan Ogline 0:28
I'm doing good. JOohn, How about yourself?

John Meese 0:30
Well, I'm doing I'm doing good. It's a It's a new year. So it's a it's a time to I've actually declared this year in my own. Like, I use notion I have like a personal dashboard. When I log in. That's like my goals, everything like that. And I went the first year I've gone full whoo, whoo, I put at the top 2021 The year of harvest. So I've just kind of put it out there.

Dylan Ogline 0:49
And I like that.

John Meese 0:50
Yeah. So

Dylan Ogline 0:51
Especially after the dumpster fire we just went through.

John Meese 0:55
Yes, 2020 was definitely your have a lot of other things. I haven't actually determine what to call that one yet. I'm just saying, this is the year of harvest. We don't need to talk about 2020

Dylan Ogline 1:04
Yeah, let's just forget that that happened Yeah,

John Meese 1:07
But uh, you know, but let's move forward. So, Dylan, you know, like I said, thank you so much for joining me today. And I'm looking forward to digging in, tell me more about your story and what kind of what insights we can take from this to share with other entrepreneurs. But before we do, I'd love to give you a moment just to share with us, Dylan, who are you and what gets you out of bed in the morning?

Dylan Ogline 1:27
What gets me out of bed in the morning? So and now it is I've reached a point in my career, which is, I'm only 31 so saying that word still makes me uncomfortable. But I've been I've owned my business for 17 years now give or take. So but but I've reached the point where I've kind of hit financial goals. And that probably really happened probably like two years ago. And I've been making this transition now to more of giving back. Which sounds so cliche and I hate saying that term.

John Meese 2:05
I was gonna say, do you have like a you know, a live laugh love poster over there somewhere?

Dylan Ogline 2:09
Over there on the wall? Absolutly No. But that's that really has been. And it's been exciting. It's it's definitely my main business is a digital marketing agency. And that means great, highly profitable, fantastic business. I love working with my clients. I love that business. But it gets to the certain point where helping somebody go from $500,000 a year in sales to $1 million a year in sales. Like, that's awesome. That's not changing somebody's life. You know, in the last probably two years, I've been putting a lot of my focus into training and education and working with people who are on the ground floor, like, you know, they had a job, maybe they lost their job there. Maybe they started their business and they're doing say $2,000 a month, getting that person from $2,000 to say $8000 changes everything.

John Meese 3:01

Dylan Ogline 3:02
Exactly. What's been getting me out of bed as cliched as it is helping people with a drastic change for me over the past couple of years.

John Meese 3:10
That sounds great. Well, you pass the test. Well, let's talk a little about that. Because So you mentioned that, you know, you're 31 and you've been you've owned your own business for 17 years, which if my math is correct, you know, that means you started this business in some form or fashion when you were just 14. Is that right?

Dylan Ogline 3:27
Well, not not the business that I have now. I started my very first business when I was 14 on a, I like a wholesale cell phone business, some flipping them on eBay. Well back when I was 14, and then between then and so now it's a digital marketing agency really did make that shift to that product, or that that service, excuse me, until like the end of 2016. So there was it, like 12 years of bouncing around between all sorts of different things.

John Meese 3:59
Yeah. So what initially drew you to entrepreneurship as a career to use the word you should use earlier,

Dylan Ogline 4:05
I was surrounded by by business owners. My parents were business owners at the time in my life. My my girlfriend at the time, her dad was the President CEO of like, the biggest business in the area. So I was highly influenced by him. He was a mentor for a very long time. I picked up Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki. Yeah, all these things happen when I was like 13/14 and I was starting to think about like, what do I want to go to college for and business kept popping up and I ended up not going to college, but it was Yeah, just all these things hitting me at the right time. And, and that kind of lit the lit the spark and it you know, in in plain English, I didn't want to be poor. I grew up in a middle income family and I - I wanted to be able to I've talked about this before, literally my motivation was I wanted to be able to turn the heat on whenever I wanted. I didn't want

John Meese 5:07
and temperature, right and not have to worry about a kid going above that dreaded whatever every family that I know in middle or lower class. I mean, I grew up in a relatively poor family, not like, it's hard. It's hard, because, you know, like, we live in this like, first world country where it's like, yes, even poor or rich. Okay, great. Like, let's set that aside for a second. Still. We were, you know, at the point, our I remember, there was like a degree where you were allowed to turn it above a certain level, because you'd hear something about the heat bill, for sure.

Dylan Ogline 5:35
Absolutely. Yeah. Yes, I grew up in western Pennsylvania. So brutal winters. And it just absolutely froze. That was what my motivation was, wasn't to buy and buy some fancy car or have some fancy watch. It was just to turn the heat on whenever I want it.

John Meese 5:56
Well, do you have the heat on right now?

Dylan Ogline 5:59
Actually, theAC is on I'm in Florida. So

John Meese 6:01
Oh, okay. So

Dylan Ogline 6:02
It's a little different now.

John Meese 6:04
It's A little different problem? Yes. Well, well, great. Well, thank you for sharing that. So I knoa you didn't start with digital marketing. But now you've been you know, leading a digital marketing agency for some time now. So what what does that look like? Can you give us an inside look into kind of what your what your company and your services look like currently?

Dylan Ogline 6:21
Sure. So the business called Ogline Digital, and we just do plain English, what we, we say we offer, our tagline would be that we offer direct response, digital marketing, management services, but to everybody else, it's, we simply manage our clients, Google, and Facebook ads, sometimes YouTube, that's that's all we're doing. We're, when we watch, we only have a few clients, that range is dependent on the seasons and whatnot. But typically under seven clients, we create, you know, we write the the Facebook ad as an example. We choose the pictures, we choose the targeting, things like that. Yeah, I have systems in place for all that stuff. And then we drive the leads to towards typically some kind of form or something on on the client's landing page. That's basically what we do.

John Meese 7:10
Okay, great. And that's the portrait lifestyle. I mean, is that your primary business core focus of what you do then?

Dylan Ogline 7:15
Absolutely. So the Four Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss was a huge impact on my life. So my goal when building the agency was, it was really all about lifestyle for me. So I work at home, I do have a coworking membership, but especially with COVID, I'm not using that,

John Meese 7:33
hey, I own a coworking space. So I'm like, well, you need it desperately.

Dylan Ogline 7:37
No, I still I still have the membership. site. Yeah. But I go I go sometimes, Yeah, yeah. So yes. So I built the company to support them. With lifestyle in mind, it wasn't just, that's just generate revenue was I, I wanted to create it in a certain way. So my, I've never met any of my team members in person. They're all throughout the world. A lot of them I never even talked to, I couldn't even tell you all their names, because I honestly forget them, because I talked to them so rarely. That's all by design. I designed the business in that way. And it really took a long time to get there. But it was by design.

John Meese 8:23
Well, let's talk about that. I mean, let's assume that there's people listening right now to this interview, who are thinking, Man, well, that sounds nice for way to go Dylan, how do I get some of that? You know, and so, and so maybe let's talk about that for a minute in terms of you know, how you navigated that path. And, you know, it's 2021, it's a new year. And I think there's a lot of entrepreneurs who are thinking, you know, the term lifestyle business has been used kind of pejoratively, to describe, you know, kind of, you know, poopoo side projects that people have, but the reality is that, you know, everyone's in business, and everyone's in work for a lifestyle. Now, it may be that your lifestyle is that you want to build a multi billion dollar company, and you want to then sell that for, you know, bukus money and go hang out on an island, it may be that you want to automate your business, you have a cash flow machine, it may be that you just want to break free from your day job and you want to be your own boss, or that you want to work directly with a handful of client, whatever that is. lifestyle is at the core of business. I mean, it's like, it's the core of work period. So, with that in mind, I'd love to know, you know, just just thinking about the people listening to this right now, who are perhaps a little jealous, you know, let's just acknowledge that emotion of what you're experiencing Dylan. You know, what would you share and encourage people to prioritize to pursue the lifestyle that they that they want through their businesses?

Dylan Ogline 9:40
Sure. So whether you are and I liked how you talked about, like everybody is in even if you're a contractor working for a couple different people, you don't have any team members. It's all you. You're a business owner. If you're say a graphics designer and working for five different companies or you're a writer in your work, For five different companies, your business owner, and you need to, you need to realize that you need to think of that. And I would argue that, especially with COVID, we prior to COVID, that the definition of work has been changing. So more and more people are less likely to be employees and more likely to be kind of contractors. And it's been making that shift. And so first is recognizing that, that you that you are a business owner, whether you like it or not, or whether you consider yourself to be one or not. And the second is, if you are having that feeling of jealousy or something like that, realize that you set the rules for your business. So if you're like, if you're sitting there, you're like, Oh, I want to be able to post COVID travel around the world, like I travel was a huge, important part of my life. So I built my business in such a way that I could travel. So I've traveled all over the world while running my business. If that's something where you're sitting, then you're like, Oh, I'm jealous of that. I want that kind of lifestyle. You need to realize that it's your responsibility to build your business, again, whether or not you think you have a business or not, it is your responsibility to build your business in such a way that gives you the lifestyle that you want. And if you're sitting there thinking, Oh, it can't be done. I don't know, I have yet to meet anybody that was like, Nope, it's not not possible with your particular business. There's a lot of people who need to make shifts, make changes, but it can be done with absolutely anything. And you just need to put in the work and decide what kind of lifestyle that you want. And I would argue that is the most important thing. And where you went with it, where you maybe you want a billion dollar business, if that's truly what you want, then build that. But if you want some kind of cash flow thing that allows you to quit your day job, then build that and, and build it on purpose that way. That would be mine. Just being conscious of it as is I think the most important thing.

John Meese 12:05
Yeah, no, I think I think that's a that's powerful. And that's, you know, it's so much of life, work, entrepreneurship, business and all those things, it's easy to fall into the trap of just kind of reacting to what's there. Or maybe you're like, you know, maybe you have a job that turns into a contract, and you're like, oh, all of a sudden, I'm a contractor. Okay, you know, I guess I'm a freelancer. Now, maybe you take on one other client, you know, like, it's easy to kind of just go with the flow or you know, to you there is a way to build a business of some kind, but just going with the flow, but if you're not careful, you could end up building the business that you didn't want the first place, you know, and so I think that's why it's so important, as you just described to Jelena just getting clear on where are you going with this? I mean, what's the goal here? What's the end game?

Dylan Ogline 12:45
There is an incredible book. I don't know who the author is you you might, there's a book called ascent. Man, I'm butchering it here Essentialism.

John Meese 12:55
Oh, Greg McEwen.

Dylan Ogline 12:57
Yeah, yeah. Incredible, incredible book. If you haven't read it, go buy it. Now.

John Meese 13:02
I second that, I second that.

Dylan Ogline 13:04
It's been a while since I've read it. But he talks about how I think it's specifically with time, like where if you don't decide how your time is set up? Or what projects or what you're working on, other people will will decide? Yeah, so if you're sitting there and you're like, Ah, it's not possible for me, I can't build my business this way. I can't do things this way. It's because you gave up the ability to make those decisions, somebody is making the decision. And you just need to restructure things so that you have the ability to make the decision. And most importantly, when you get that ability actually make the decision to focus on on what you want and then and the lifestyle that you want. It's up to you.

John Meese 13:50
Yeah, no, I think I think it's really powerful concept. And that book, by the way, one of my core values is do less better, which comes straight from Oh, yeah, capitalism. So so you picked a good reference, for sure. But it within essentialism. Greg McEwen, I think in that context, talks about a couple things that you're referring to one of those is Parkinson's Law, which states that work expands to fill the time allotted for it, which means that like, if you sit up and you're like, Alright, I've got to write a blog post or I've got a, you know, draft instruction manual for some process and I'm a delegate to somebody. I'm going to give myself 20 minutes Well guess what it's gonna take you to do it 20 minutes, give yourself 90 minutes, give yourself two hours, it's gonna take 90 minutes gonna take two hours. And that's Parkinson's Law, which is the work expands to fill the time allotted for it. And the second thing, you know that the concept I think is powerful that you shared is just that someone is making a decision about your time. Now the question is it you or someone else, and one of the most egregious offenders on that level, I would say is email. So many people check their email first thing in the morning, and non stop and non stop, that's true. And what email is, is, email is an open door, anyone could request anything of you. And if you just if you let your, your email in flow, direct your workflow, well, then you're just going to be, you're just going to be prioritizing other people's priorities the whole time. Yeah,

Dylan Ogline 15:48
And you're also reactive, you want to be proactive with with your work to the best of your ability. And there are certain things that fires that can pop up that you need to put out to a certain degree, but a lot of that stuff is just setting rules. And with those fires, if you can write a manual or something like you mentioned, so that people you have in place can manage things, you know, if this, then this, you know, this happened do this. I mean, those are just like simple ideas right there. But yeah, the people that I talked to the biggest thing is, they just simply need to recognize that this is my responsibility. And I have the choice, that is the most critical thing, and then actually taking the actions to, you know, like, like email. Personally, I will just simple role that comes off the top of my head. If somebody emails me something, it's not getting responded to for at least 24 hours. Even if I'm in the middle of answering all my emails, right now something comes in, I will purposely snooze it until tomorrow. And I would just like some Gmail, that I don't know if it's an add on or something in Gmail, but just snooze it till tomorrow. And I do this so that it trains other people to not think, Oh, I can email Dylan, he's gonna email me right back. Because people get if they are doing that all the time, they're going to the next thing they're gonna call and you mean like, hey, Dylan, I didn't I didn't hear from you What's going on? Is everything. Okay? Because you didn't get back to me within 15 minutes. If that's happening to you, I'd hate to tell you, but it's your fault.

John Meese 17:20
Yeah, you can set expectations, you know, and there's always there's always people always come with their own preconceived expectations. You know, like, I had a client recently who, you know, this didn't come up in our internal conversations, you know, before we started working together, but then it became clear right away, oh, they have a culture of like, you know, everything is asap, they have an ASAP culture, you know, where everything is, like, you know, like, literally, like, a meeting would just appear on your calendar in 15 minutes. Like, like, they'd like, they didn't send you a message. They were like, we're meeting and it would appear in your calendar, you're like, what? No, I've got other things going on. So you know, in that case, I had at first I got a little frustrated, but then I paused and I was like, Oh, this is on me. And so I came back, and I drafted an article, or an article wasn't that extensive, but it did draft a little message in slack to their team, just to say, you know, hey, I am so excited to work together. And, you know, I just want to share a couple of suggestions on some of the ways that we can work together, it's gonna maximize our time and our ability to focus on high leverage things. And it was, it was those kinds of things, it was like, I'm going to protect some time each week for pop up meetings on my calendar, which you'll have shared. So you know, like, if you just need to book something quick, it can happen during those windows. Otherwise, please reach out to my assistant and she can coordinate a time, you know, like, it was just me just communicating. And even when I sent that message, even though I know this, I've done this 100 times, I still when I sent that message, just like anybody else out there, who's cringing a little bit is thinking like, they're gonna get so mad though. They're gonna fire me. I'm gonna lose the gig, I'm gonna lose the money. But no, they just responded with the thumbs up emoji. And then like somebody else from the leadership team on that company, like, commented in the like, thread on slack and tagged other people and was like, hey, make sure you make sure you listen to john on this, you know, it's like, Yeah, no, there was all there was no, you know, like, it's all we do have control, we do have influence. And with email, same, I've noticed that over time, because I just like you, I built the habit that I, I don't generally respond to something same day, what I do, because I noticed my most productive hours are in the morning, is I don't check my email until noon. And so I do actually have an assistant who will go in there and she filters my inbox, right? So first of all, I don't see anything until it goes through her. So 80% of my email, I don't actually need to see it, you know, it's like a notification or meaningless stuff. It's meaningless stuff, you know, most of it so she takes care of all that. And then around noon, or shortly thereafter, I checked my inbox and I just see what I need to see, you know, what's already been filtered for me. But secondarily, just because of that built in system, that means that most people are hearing back roughly 24 hours after they sent the email, unless you can send an email in the morning and then it gets to the filter, you know, that's fine. And so I don't have like an autoresponder my email that says Like, by the way, I'm not gonna respond right away, but people in my life that I work with on a regular basis, they've picked up on. And so I mean, literally yesterday, I wouldn't have seen it. But there was a church service yesterday evening. And I'm involved in volunteer at some things with - with my church. And so the choir director had sent an email. And then he sent me a text, right? He sent me a text,

Dylan Ogline 20:16
because he probably knew.

John Meese 20:19
He knew I wouldn't see it. And so he sent me a text, he was like, hey, just want to make sure you get a chance, if you can check the email I sent you before tonight, that'd be helpful. Great, easy peasy, done. You know, in the past, I would always feel like I had to respond everything all the time. And that created some issues. And so obviously, emails getting me a little riled up. Cal Newport is writing a book right now, it's not out yet, but I'm very curious to read it. But he wrote it, he's writing a book, it's available for pre order called a world without email. And he's reimagining work. Because there's so much of everything we do is based around the problems-

Dylan Ogline 20:55
Around the email and stuff. One thing I will mention, he talks about, for those who are cringing, when we were talking about setting these roles and thinking, you know, oh, that client might fire me, I think this all plays into that whole, making the shifts with this, the changing definition of work, where more and more people are going to be business owners, whether they like it or not, they're going to have multiple companies or organizations that they work with. So when you're thinking, Oh, this, this person might fire me realize that that's not the end of the world. And I like to say that I fire bad clients, they don't fire me, I fire them. And at the end of the day, when you make this shift, which we'll start to see is like, those clients that are like demanding your attention or sending you pop up, you know, meetings starting in 15 minutes, they're probably impacting your quality of work.

John Meese 21:51

Dylan Ogline 21:51
And, if, especially if you have some kind of creative work, like for us, you know, we're writing ads or something like that. Or if you're a writer, I mean, hands down, this is this is something that impacts you. If you fire these bad clients, contrary to popular belief, it might actually make you better at what you're doing. So then you can charge more, and your clients get better results. So just realize it's not the end of the world. And it's actually probably a good thing. It's all about quality. And you need to make that that mindset shift where recognizing that these are good things, and you will have, you know, the pain clients who are like, Oh, you know, no, that's unacceptable. You need to be available 24/7, like, go whatever to get out. I'm not wasting my time. The world does not revolve around you. And and I can't deliver good quality work. If you're interrupted me every 15 minutes

John Meese 22:51
Right. Well, let's talk about that. Because you mentioned one of the byproducts of setting those boundaries is your ability to raise your rates. And I know, that's somewhere again, we're talking about the talking about cringing, that's somewhere where a lot I know a lot of people get stuck, you know, and myself included, I mean, I've I've, you know, read all the books and gone through the training programs, and I know all about doubling or tripling or quadrupling your rates or 10x-ing your rates. And still I found because I've heard this from other people, but I found this myself, because I've 10x-ed my income through my, you know, like over the past five years in my business, and at each point, there seems to be like this, imagine there's like a, an imaginary line I come to that's like, it's like my stupid number, where you come to a point. And it's like, the biggest number you could ever imagine charging someone without feeling like a complete failure. And now I look at the number that I charged now, and I look back at what I charged two years ago, three years ago, and I just can't I can't believe it. But I know now I have my own stupid number that I can't pass, you know, like, like the currently like my current roadblock, and I will overcome it. Yeah, but I know that's one of the things that you talk about is showing your value, you know, to be able to raise your prices. So can you provide any advice or tips about kind of what that looks like for, you know, for someone in my position for you know, for every entrepreneur, whether they're a business owner selling a product that may be underpriced, or a consultant selling a service that's underpriced. You know, how do you recommend approaching that?

Dylan Ogline 24:12
Sure. So, so really, it comes down to what is the problem that you're solving, and all these things like they play together? It's like a snowball effect, they all feed off of each other. So one of the things I like to talk about is niching down your solution, everybody talks about niching down but but I'm like take it even further. So if you're like oh, I'm going to target this particular industry like go even further and like as far niche as you possibly can, and try to solve as niched of a problem as you possibly can. And the more niched down the problem is, the better you are going to be at solving it. And then you can, you can get better at defining the problem. And whenever you can define the problem better than the person who has the problem. Can them selves, they automatically assume that you have the solution. I mean, that's just marketing. But when you start to do that you, you know, it feeds off of itself where the client will start to see the value, not necessarily your time, because you're defining the problem. Again, this is so broad. What, what is your business? What do you what do you do? Because it's, it's easier. I can probably define it better for folks. If I if I could give an example other than myself, I can give a great example with myself. But what's your business?

John Meese 25:37
Yeah, so my business specifically?

Dylan Ogline 25:38
Yes. Yeah. Well, as you said,

John Meese 25:42
Well, so yeah, that's actually something I don't like. So that, yes. So I have three businesses, which is part of my own neurotic problem that I created for myself, but one of those businesses through I'm trying to pick which one would be better to focus on. But like NotableThemes is a good example that I'd like to focus on, actually. So with with notable themes is actually a software company. And we sell in the past, it's like WordPress themes and plugins. But we've really hyper focused now on this flagship product rolling out called NotablePress. And it's a it is it is technically a WordPress theme. But it's essentially like a website builder for creators to publish your blog, podcast and YouTube content on a website that has a dynamic homepage that kind of feels more engaging than like a static homepage, kind of like, the reason why we refresh. Well, I don't, but the reason why people refresh the Facebook feed over and over again, is because it's like fresh and exciting. And so being able to take that kind of energy to your website. So we sell the software itself, we also have a productize service that goes with that, that we sell now called NotablePrestige, where we'll work with you my business partner, and I, he's the designer and the developer, and I'm the marketing guy. And so we'll help you create a personalized marketing playbook combined with like a brand and logo, kind of like brand identity playbook. and combine that with actually building out your website on the NatablePress. So that's a new service, we just launched that. And I know, I know we're under pricing right now. But it'll we'll proceed includes the personalized, like marketing playbook. It includes your brand identity, your brand identity kit, and it also includes your website built out on NotablePress for you. And it's $5,000. So that's kind of that's an example of like the for that business for notable themes. That's the highest priced listed service that we have other than kind of what I've customized projects,

Dylan Ogline 27:26
Who's your ideal, did you say like, if you had like a podcast or something, you would use that. Who is your ideal client,

John Meese 27:31
Content creators in a broad sense, but for this specific business, for this specific product category, we're focusing on content creators who have an established audience, I think there will definitely be the software itself, beginners should use it, that's awesome. But for this service, these are more like someone who's got they've already got a podcast, they've already got a YouTube channel, they may have a couple 100,000 subscribers. And then what we're showing them is you can actually take all of that content, build your own audience off outside of YouTube, monetize that, I mean, potentially, we're talking about if this is your first time building out your own content engine outside of a platform like YouTube, you may be adding 10, 20, 30 or $100,000 in revenue to your business right away if you already hit depending upon the size of your audience, and how engaged.

Dylan Ogline 28:12
So this is actually a pretty good example. Great. So cuz content creators, so most people, when they're starting their business, they're starting their service, they're starting, you know, they're creating their product. They're thinking content creators, they want to create some product or service that services, everybody. Okay? But recognize that there is only it and this is this is repeatable in nearly every industry, there's only a small percentage of the industry that is looking to really spend money on something like what you want to look for where is like, where's the sweet spot of like high profitability there, and that might only be 5% of the market 3% of the market. Okay. Whereas most people are thinking I want to I want to service that 100% of the market is going to be interested in and the truth is, is that there is no service or product that 100% of the market wants, an example I've used before is like cars, okay? You could create a free car, like literally a free vehicle that's out there, they deliver it for free, there is still a certain percentage of the market that has absolutely no interest in that there is still a certain percentage of the market that is willing to spend three, four or $500,000 on a vehicle because they want absolute perfection or they want to be unique, or they want this or that. Okay, where this is where you can get price trap where you're thinking, Oh, that the cheap solution. Okay, well, I just gave you an example where even if you had a free vehicle, not everybody would want it.

John Meese 29:55
Right? Why they wouldn't want it. I mean, because I think if somebody asked myself, I'm just curious what you would say

Dylan Ogline 29:59
Why not everybody would want the free solution. Yeah. Like, what? Like the car, because there's a certain percentage of the market, that money isn't a factor, it's not the money, they have a problem that they want to solve, or they have, they want something. So their problem might be that they just want absolute perfection, they want the very best, okay? Or they want to be unique, not necessarily a problem, but they want to be different, they want to stand out. So they're willing to spend, you know, and again, money is not a factor, they want to spend $400,000, to have a, you know, a Ferrari, because they, they want everybody to look at them.

John Meese 30:36
Well, if I can add another on the flip side, or the maybe not the flip side, but the other side of the spectrum, I'm thinking with the car example, a ca might be free, but that doesn't include gas, oil changes, maintenance, knowing how to drive, right. I mean, there's like, on the other side of the spectrum, there's a lot of people who wouldn't know what to do with the free car.

Dylan Ogline 30:52
Yeah, and you can go in many different directions. So like with the the content creators, so there, I'm sure probably somebody could hack together all of these different services, to get essentially what you're offering, right. And maybe it's a third of the cost. But to a certain percentage of the market, maybe 3%, maybe 5% of the market, the cost doesn't necessarily matter. Time matters more, or results matter more, or quality matters more, and they're willing to spend the money to get the highest quality or the time matters more in realizing whatever your unique selling point is, the more unique it gets, the higher you can charge a price for. So it can be quality, it can be time, it can be uniqueness, those are just three categories that come to mind. And the better you get with that, the more niche down you can get, the faster your service, or the more unique your service or the higher quality that your service, the higher you can raise your rates. Did that answer the question? It took a lot longer than I expected. But let's summarize.

John Meese 32:05
No, that's good. That's helpful. I'm just trying to think, you know, I want to make sure that we're sharing this in such a way that it's helpful to the audience, I'm just trying to think in their in their shoes, or you know, is there like a, how do you raise your prices? In other words, like, is there? Do you have like a gut check or a framework or some advice on? You know, do you raise your prices? 10% of the time 50% of time? Do you double them? I mean, how do you? How do you tell when you're overpricing something, is it kind of the flip side of that, you know, how do you know when you you're over valuing your services.

Dylan Ogline 32:36
So I think, you know, taking an analytical approach to it can get very complicated. That's almost like the big business approach. Really analyzing the market and trying to figure out if that's like, like airlines, trying to squeeze you know, the the little bit more on pricing, right? Where's the truth is for most, most business owners, most entrepreneurs, if you're a writer, let's use that as an example again, and so you're writing for five different companies, once you reach capacity, you are working 40 hours a week writing, just raise your rates. Until you know that that capacity starts to go down a little bit. So it might be double your rates it might be and you kind of have to judge the market. So it might be doubling your prices might be 5x-ing in your prices, which is more difficult if you're doing that with existing clients. And just certainly, if you're getting clients, it's

John Meese 33:31
very difficult.

Dylan Ogline 33:32
Yeah, it's a lot harder,

John Meese 33:33
Almost almost impossible. Not quite, but you know,

Dylan Ogline 33:35
Yeah. Yeah. But I, with my current business, it really it's, we charge a 10% of whatever the clients adspend is. So there really isn't any any neat because the more they spend, right yeah, but what before you know, I've done like web design and stuff like that before I would just go to people and be like, Hey, you know, starting January 1, our rates are going to $50 an hour whatever if you know we're gonna honor any projects that have already started or whatever you know, we're gonna sit back that if this if this works for you please let us know if it doesn't work for you just let us know and we got some maybe referrals and we can pass you on as a client on to to other people. And we most people respect that. Again, it is a lot more uncomfortable rather than just bringing on new clients and be like, Hey, you know now we charge 100 bucks an hour. What really can be done? It absolutely can be done with those are great examples. Yeah, yeah.

John Meese 34:39
Oh, good. That's helpful. Well, Dylan, I appreciate your time and thank you for sharing your your experience and your story with us today. Appreciate it that I know it's gonna be helpful. So where can we go to learn more about you and what you're up to on the worldwide web?

Dylan Ogline 34:52
Sure, my websites simply You can also find me on the Facebook's and the Instagrams etc. Just add Dylan Ogline

John Meese 35:01
Great. Perfect. All right, thank you Dylan Keep up the good work.

Dylan Ogline 35:04
Absolute thanks man

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John Meese is the author of the #1 bestseller Survive and Thrive: How to Build a Profitable Business in Any Economy (Including This One). An entrepreneur himself, John is on a mission to eradicate generational poverty by equipping entrepreneurs with the tools and training they need to build thriving businesses from scratch. He is the CEO of Cowork.Inc, co-founder of Notable, and host of the Thrive School podcast.

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