Casey Graham is a serial entrepreneur and the CEO of Gravy Solutions, a payment recovery company that serves subscription-based businesses. In this interview, he shares his response to COVID-19 with a “recession-accelerated” business plan of attack that allowed him to dramatically grow his business despite a declining economy and quickly create a content marketing engine to become an authority on LinkedIn.

John Meese 0:00
Good morning, Casey, how you doing?

Casey Graham 0:00
Good morning John. Thanks for having me, bro.

John Meese 0:02
Oh, it is my pleasure. I'm so glad you're here and I always enjoy our conversations. So glad we get to record this one. So for So you and I have actually, you know we've kind of run in the same circles for a few years and we've had the chance to work directly together on a couple projects just in the last couple of years with your company so but let's just talk for a second. I want to know a little bit about you Casey for the anyone who's listening to this interview who may have never heard of you or and wants to know who you are and what gets you out of bed in the morning. So what does get you out of bed in the morning Casey and how do you spent your day

Casey Graham 0:20
Alabama football fires me a check the recruiting stats every morning. No, man. I'm Casey. My wife's name is Casey, by the way. So I always say that because I like start sharing a story about her and people think I'm talking about myself in third person, but

John Meese 0:29
About how you love Casey?

Casey Graham 0:29
Yeah. So I've got a wife 16 years in. And then my daughter Darby is 13. And my son gages is eight. And, man we do a lot of we live on a farm. And so a lot of hunting and a lot of fishing. A lot of cool, fun hot tub like I'm an enneagram seven. So every day is a new adventure at the house. And so I really love being home. But you know, for work. I've started grown and sold three companies previous to the company that we're currently operating, which is called Gravy and Gravy is we just turned three years old. So we're three years. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. And more importantly, we just Our mission at Grady is to return $1 billion back to businesses by the end of 2023. And as of this past Friday, we just passed 100 million dollars returned back to businesses and so on. What gets me up in the morning is not just the number. But why we do this is that what we say is that we accelerate freedom. And that's, that's, that's our core of who we are like, I'm like an American Dream guy. Like I believe in it. And I believe that entrepreneurs, but nobody ever makes anything better. Like, nobody, nothing gets better unless you get a bunch of entrepreneurs around and go, Hey, that doesn't work, or this road needs to be fixed. Or if you think, yeah, you think back into history of what what made the world better what its entrepreneurs. And so we get fired up to be in the game with entrepreneurs, supporting entrepreneurs. And we just that's what we do every single day is that we help them free their mindsets where they don't have to worry about money because we're taking care of it and that's what I get to do every day.

John Meese 1:26
Well, Casey, I love that and I appreciate you sharing that and so, snapshot if you can, so you're so Gravy while the Gravy I mean functional He's also a payment recovery services company primarily still at this point, is that correct?

Casey Graham 1:31
Yeah, we do one thing, we've only done one thing and we recover failed payments for subscription based businesses.

John Meese 1:35
Yeah. Well, so and I know I've worked with you on a couple on, you know, I've recommended to some friends. But also, I mean, the biggest project, we work together on platform diversity, you've recovered a heck of a lot of money that we just didn't know we were kind of leaking out the back door over time. So it's been fun to see so. So it kind of makes our results go a lot farther, which is pretty cool. So what about can you just share a snapshot of your previous businesses and you've bought and sold or you didn't buy or sell? Actually, I think you grew from scratch. Is that correct?

Casey Graham 2:14
I totally understand why people buy businesses. Every every business I started takes about five years off the end of my life. So you know, two different accounting businesses. One was in the church space, and one was in the Have you heard of Belay? Yeah, we're Brian Miles, so assistent business. Well, they have a bookkeeping business that's inside of as well. And so it started as it started as a company called Mac bookkeeping. And I was I was the majority shareholder. And Brian and Shannon bought me out of that. So it says there. And then another was called the Rocket Company, which was a, we did online products as a software product for actually pastors and churches to to help them grow their churches. And so we got bought by private equity group in 2016, as a big roll up, and so I've kind of been all over the board, man, and now I'm payment recovery.

John Meese 4:37
Well, that's great. So different kind of recovery, I guess. But um, well, if you could, Casey, I'd love it. If you would go. Well, we just went back in time pretty far actually. So actually, I need you to go forward in time with me a little bit, but not quite today. I actually want to back up to the beginning of the year, that will be forever known as 2020 because that's just here it is, and would love to know when did you first realize that COVID-19 was a real threat. Specifically, I want to know if you remember, this is your personal experience. So do remember where you were what happened, who you were talking to, when all of a sudden you said, Whoa, this is something else.

Casey Graham 5:09
We wrere on a content retreat with me and three other people were in downtown Atlanta. And we had, we were doing like a batch content day staying in a hotel, had everything set up. And one of the ladies on our team just kept going, Hey, my husband keeps you know, asking about like, you know, because it kind of swirling, but here I am a seven, two. So like, I love everything. So I'm like, you know, okay, cool, whatever. So that I mean, we

John Meese 5:42
Yeah, that's important. But let's pause for a second. I don't want to assume everybody familiar with the enneagram even though you and I are so as a group seven are the enthusiasts, My mom is intagram seven she refers to herself as the party girl right. And so that's kind of the idea is like, everything's a party. Everything's fun. Keep it light, right. I mean, that's kind of the Yeah, life of the party.

Casey Graham 6:00
And we spin all of the fears and all of the things into like, Oh my gosh, like so this is a cool opportunity. Like, what's gonna come out of it, you know, this and the other. And so we had a lady that was really, really scared on the retreat. And I thought, like, in my head, I was like, you're kind of weird. Like, this is not that big of a deal. Right? And literally, I remember the next day when we came down stairs in the elevators, and there was the first person I saw wearing a mask. And they were a flight crew from Europe. And it was when Italy was breaking out, and there were an Italian flight crew. And then these people freaked out I'm with and they were in the same elevators. And it was like, the first time I was like, Oh my gosh, like, people are like, this is real. So that's, that was my ground zero moment.

John Meese 6:50
Wow. Well, as a business owner, how did you respond to that?

Casey Graham 6:55
I pretended it didn't exist for a little bit. Okay,

John Meese 6:59
That's fair.

Casey Graham 7:01
Did I just, I just said, Hey, you know, business as usual. And then about a week passed, and then like, school gets canceled. And then you know, then it's like, you know, we have 40 something people that are majority, like, you know, work from home, work at home moms, right? Working full time, and now their kids are It was like, Okay, we have to address this. This is real, but I thought it would be like a three week thing. And like, literally, you know, one of those things. So that's how I addressed it is I sent an email out this morning, actually, Rene and I read it. And I told him three things we're going to do. And the third thing is that we're going to serve through this and that we're all we were already set up. We actually what we had a mantra that we came up with, called built for this. And internally, we built a rally crack called built for this because we were already virtual. We're already in Working in online business spaces, we're not in a physical place. We're already called slack our headquarters. That's where all of our community and stuff happens. And like we were position employees in when we started the business three years earlier, in our first board meeting we ever had one of our board guests, and you don't know about your business is that a recession accelerated. And so we created a recession acceleration framework. And we were waiting on a financial recession, and I have a framework, I'm literally looking at the we have built to say, when the recession hits, this is how we're going to operate. This is the graph we're going to take. We had no idea what was gonna be a virus, you know, kind of, so that so we started rolling out and we were ready with the plan of saying, here's our recession accelerated framework, and here's exactly what we're gonna do.

John Meese 8:48
Well, why don't we just talk about that framework for a minute? Because I think that's unique. I mean, at this point, you are the 22nd guests have interviewed. Yeah, all successful business owners and entrepreneurs. And I remember you talked about this publicly when this was going on. That, to me, you're the only person I've talked to, I'm sure not the only person in the world, but you're the only person I've talked to who officially had a recession response plan, like already in the books for when this hit. And you're right, that we didn't, there was no way we could foresee a pandemic. But economic recessions happen on a regular basis in the modern economy. There's always something that inspires them, whether it was the you know, housing bubble collapsing in 2008, or the Twin Towers collapsing in 2001. You know, whatever it is, there's always something that kind of is the trigger. This one happens to be a health a global health crisis. But let's talk about that. So what what is your what is or was your response and your economic response plan and how has that worked out for you?

Casey Graham 9:39
Oh, this is not a response plan as much as it was a war plan.

John Meese 9:46
Oh, yeah.

Casey Graham 9:48
So this wasn't just how to how we're going to respond as much as it was, how we're going to take ground and we were waiting for it. And there's there's four different And they can't see this, but you can. And so this is the framework.

John Meese 10:04
And that maybe we can put that visual or link to it in the show notes.

Casey Graham 10:07
Totally. So So we started with, okay, what's happening in the world? Well, there's two different parts that we're focused on, what's our communication strategy going to be to the world? And then what's the opportunity going to be so for the world, our communication was going to be empathetic that we were going to leave with it, but they, yeah, but the opportunity was going to be things are going to be cheap. town is going to get cheap. Ads are going to get cheap, like, so everybody's running out. And so we knew the opportunity is that things are going to get cheaper. And so we're buy buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy. So that's that's what I did. And I did this without portfolios, but I bought we bought tons as this thing like was going Go, go, go, go go and go. And so that that's what our response was going to be is like we're going to advance and we're going to buy it To work, and we're going to invest more with things get back to the world. So with our clients, our communication was going to be personalized. That was the word. And so we had a personal communication setup of being one to one, one to one. So we said that we have a one to one, one to one mindset with a one to many model. And so with our clients that we're going to meet with their customers it was going to be we're going to increase personalization. As people get scared, they need to hear their name, and hey, John, we're good. But for our clients are the opportunity we felt like was to be the guy. So this was the time where we wanted to move from our clients from being the service provider to the guy who had a lead in this environment. Does that make sense?

John Meese 11:45
Yeah, totally. Well, I saw you do this because you were just to talk. Pause that one for a second. So I mean, that informed some of the things you did in terms of you started hosting these free webinars and you started creating content like you've never done before, through your through this brand. I mean, so

Casey Graham 11:58
We didn't have content marketing. We didn't Have we were the first company. This is no joke. We were the first company to do a webinar on the PPP logs,

John Meese 12:07
right? I remember you guys brought in a law firm to consult on, didn't you?

Casey Graham 12:10
Ywa within two days, the bill closed on a Thursday. And then on Friday, we hosted the webinar. And that was that we were ready. Like we wanted to be the guide and be helpful. I put my phone number on LinkedIn, I took 78 personal phone calls in a period of two weeks from entrepreneurs that were struggling. And so that's what we wanted to be. So that's what we did for the world, our clients and for our team, our communication for our team, our communication was going to be generous. So we were going to give more during this time than ever before. And so as people were scared, we want to just give give, give, give give, and then but the opportunity was for us to focus them and you say focus on what is that like when people get in fearful mode, they lose focus. And so we felt like that if we became more focused and double down with our team on producing results, and we had amazing results during that time our sales went up, our recoveries went up, everything went up because we're able to focus them on a weekly message of this is what we do our metrics data saying, we were set up for this and we've been preaching it before it happened. And so last but not least, was with owners. So this is how our model flows is that there's the world that constantly and then there's clients and then there's our team and then owners eat last idea that communication plan for their owners was going to be loved. Like we were going to be the place where I had so many people call me and just scared like event companies that like when my buddy he literally went from a 2 million expecting $2 million in q2 to zero. He helped me He called me and said I'm sitting on the back of my boat or like on the air by myself drinking a beer with my feet in the water. And will you just talk to me? So, but we thought the opportunity for owners in that and so what we tried to promote was creativity. And that's when it was called pivot pivot pivot or whatever. And I'm saying like, what problems? Can we solve fast now and you're starting to see some of that pop up. Now. So this was our plan. This was the recession acceleration framework. And, and that's what we did.

John Meese 14:24
Wow, well, well, how is that?

Casey Graham 14:28
Is that too vague?

John Meese 14:30
Uh, no, I think that's really helpful. I want to dive deeper into it. Right. So let's talk about it. So I want to talk about like, what is this? So like, the example for the being the guide was one of those things that came out of that for you. I mean, I mentioned the example of where I saw you jumped on. And all of a sudden, it was like, Casey Graham is teaching webinars for free on whatever topic you need to know about right now. And so she talks about the PPP the minute every business owner was like, What the heck is the paycheck protection program? You uh yeah, I mean, you were right there on the front lines of all of these things. That's one example. But what other examples has this In terms of what you mentioned, with the customers, right, you personalize the emails more, right? I'm really just trying to make sure you lean into that one to one. I love that you said that. By the way. You said you had your philosophies that you want to have a one to one relationship, but with a one to many business model, is that right?

Casey Graham 15:14
Yeah, one one mindset. When am I? So we say one to one mindset one to many model because we want to be scalable, but we don't want to scale our way out of relationship. And so by right, yeah, so here's the biggest thing to happen number one. So we have three key strategic priorities coming into 2020 and one of those was to build the Gravy brand. We we've done a really poor job of that before because you're just starting and serving and oh, try it out and all this kind of stuff. But it was like, essentially, I heard this saying is that crisis doesn't reveal a crisis doesn't create character, it reveals character. I've heard that so we didn't know how to say what our brand. And so this forced us out to the front and on the number one platform was on LinkedIn. And so we started taking ground by adding value on LinkedIn and our big our content strategy. And so we built this thing called LinkedIn influencers inside of our company. And we said, right now is the time to be the most helpful on LinkedIn. And we took the most ground and we become one of the top probably five brands in the United States, or maybe even in the world on LinkedIn was in the midst of this time period, because we were out there with a clear message, we were being helpful, we were being generous, and essentially everything that we knew internally about, if you looked at our Slack channel, we basically turned our Slack channel external, and when it showed everybody this is our culture, and that that's what created the brand. And so the point of that was that allow us to be the guy because we didn't have influence. And so we just started adding value, adding value, adding that here's what we're doing internally. Here's the five things we're giving to ourselves. After his time period, you're right, man for extra chocolate for people. Here's the Spotify subscriptions that we're paying for. Here's what we're doing. You know, I was doing videos to people's kids saying that their parents are superheroes. They didn't know that.

John Meese 17:13
Am I? I may be misremembering this, but didn't you like give like a Disney plus or Netflix subscription to some of your

Casey Graham 17:18
Yeah, still, yeah. And so we would send amazon gift card homes, to kids to buy gifts. And so they would buy it, they would film it, they would put it in there. The point was, it accelerated that and all we started doing is sharing what we're actually doing in our actual business on LinkedIn. But not just me. Right? Everybody was doing it anyway. It took two grand and now when you if you open LinkedIn, I guarantee within the first five scrolls, you're gonna see somebody from the Gravy team added value and content, but that was us becoming the guide in that situation.

John Meese 17:52
Wow. Well, and for your business. I mean, that makes a special sense. First of all, it's amazing that you were able to gain that kind of ground so quickly. From a mean, let's just be be honest from a more or less non existent presence beforehand right?

Casey Graham 18:03
Yeah, I'm not on Facebook, I'm not on Instagram. I don't feel comfortable in those environments because I don't, I just don't care. I don't care, whatever there's not we did was the first time that I felt like oh my god, like, I actually fit here and

John Meese 18:20
Right entrepreneurs business professionals, these are people,

Casey Graham 18:23
My people, and then it started working in and the algorithm is set up and I don't This doesn't have to be about LinkedIn. But the point was, that being the guy in this being the guy that your business is, we didn't talk about what Gravy does. Mm hmm. This wasn't like we're going to guide you through failed payment recovery. This is just going, here's what we're doing inside of our business. Here's what we're given. here's, here's what our slack channels are set up, like here's what whatever and so we essentially we call it the inside orange turned inside out. So they were seeing what's happening inside the orange externally. And so what we think The number one way to beat a God is not talking about what you do, but just help them. And so that's that's what we learned through that. And so our brand now is solidifying is like, gosh, these guys are just super helpful people and I trust them and that's what we want.

John Meese 19:16
Yeah, well, I love that. Well, okay, so even though you weren't focused primarily on hard business results, like revenue and cash, I mean, your your primary focus here was this, you kind of like more of like, the brand awareness is crucial, but it's kind of like a top of the funnel. So how does that I know that failed payments and subscription services were hit really, really hard at the beginning of this crisis. And even now, as People's Bank Accounts are drying up, and you know, hardware bouncing and that kind of stuff. So I'm sure that industry wise, like if we take your face and your business strategy out of it, yeah, sure. I'm sure industry wise, there are a lot of challenges there. But in your specific situation, I love to know kind of what is that? What is that turned into for you in terms of opportunities to not only you know Help your own business survive, but also to adapt to thrive in the midst of that.

Casey Graham 20:03
So we're in three industries primarily. There's the personal brand industry or like your e-learning courses. That's what we got a start. The second industry, which we do really well is SAS, but it was lagging significantly behind software,

John Meese 20:21
Right software as a service.

Casey Graham 20:22
Yeah, software's a service like plugins, and you know, you pay $79 a month and you get this widget or whatever. And then all of the it's like, professional services, but they have some brand that kind of like a weird, it's like a big mix. It could be like a law firm or it could be a accounting service or whatever, all these different ones. But what happened was the personal brand stuff you would think, oh, they're online, they froze. Everything froze for about two months. While payment, but while the clients did go up, their sales went down because they didn't know what to do. They were scared. And so we got the downhill effect of that. And so we went down a little bit there. But we started skyrocketing with SAS because we were going, we were going headfirst into LinkedIn. And that's where the SAS community is, personal brands are not there. So they're more limited to Facebook. And so that's what happened. And so our new revenue stream that came in are the people that when you look now you go, oh my gosh, the companies that are crushing is like plugins to you know, Shopify, you know, you know, Salesforce plugin or Infusionsoft plugins or whatever it is. And so those kind of people started coming our direction and that's what's created. Now we're like, this month, we had a record month, this last month we've had the best month we've ever had, and we're moving up because now personal brands are back. SAS is moving up. And that's just working to our favor right now.

John Meese 21:59
Well, congratulations. In the record month, and that's was that for July 2020. So we're talking about joining us. Right. Okay, great. Well, congratulations. That's, that's phenomenal. I mean, that's huge. I mean, that's an I think that's a testament to the success of what you're doing. And it also makes total sense that SAS companies are on the rise because a lot of these plugins and tools are part of the shift to the remote work I mean, life remote work, you know, shift that's happening globally right now, you know, because the idea of before SAS you know, was you buy like a, you know, you buy like a box with a CD and have it with your copy of Microsoft Word, or whatever it was. And that just, you know, that's just a dying model, because everybody's going cloud based computing. remote work. And so it makes total sense that industry would be on the rise and that you could ride that wave. That's pretty cool. So

Casey Graham 22:42
Yeah, and listen. It's been it's been miserable. Like, we've had fun, but man, it is not been this easy ride. Oh, we have this because I listen to these podcasts. Sometimes. I'm like, okay, like, are you a real person? Like, dude, like, I mean, fighting every day like, I'm not a workaholic. Okay? I'm just not cause I'm an enneagram seven and when I go out, yeah, so and I'm on or off, I don't I don't open my laptop at night can do some emails either do your homework or not. The point is, I worked more in that those 90 days. I mean, it was 12 to 14 hour days of just being connected being on conversations, like I've never worked that much. And I'm not a proponent of like, you know hussle, the point is that it was really hard and it was not easy. And even though you have a framework and you all this kind of stuff it you know, I just wanted everybody out there that feels like oh my gosh, did this guy just take off there. It's not it's up, but we stayed the course. And now we're on the backside of it. I feel like the muscle that has brought in the confidence and then we raised in the middle of it because we only had one customer churn from willing only have one customer of ours churn. And so we had a board meeting Virtual in the middle of it, we raised $1.5 million right in the middle of this thing, becauseand we raised it like in a week, literally seven text messages $1.5 million, so that we could accelerate because we were going oh my god, we are sticky. We didn't know that everybody's gonna leave. We didn't know. And yeah, we were like we Okay, we're sticky. We're in the revenue stream, we're adding value to these businesses. Like we always wondered, are they gonna fire us first? Because the number one thing everyone is asking is, is this essential? So we pass the

John Meese 24:32
The answer, apparently for you is yes.

Casey Graham 24:34
We passed and so because of that, we double down and that's why we're not we you know, we've added 17 people in the last 90 days or and we're really going to try to grow this thing.

John Meese 24:46
Okay, so that's a lot to unpack. Let me just say that well, first of all, Casey, I appreciate you saying that about that. This has not been fun. And the reality is I that's what we know in the interviews that I'm doing for this for this project for this podcast. My goal He is to highlight some of these stories in the midst of them. Because I think that you and a lot of the other people that I've talked to are inspirational leaders and entrepreneurs, but also hard working. And this is not like you said, I don't know anybody that's really just had, you know, been like, you know, sipping mai Tai's on the beach going like this is great. This is great, no, it's a crisis. But as Thanos from Avengers says, Yes, I am inevitable, you know, in response to like, and so the idea is that crisis is inevitable. And so the point here is not to say, how do you I mean, I think it's really amazing that you have found a way to actually gain ground during crisis. I think that's huge. But again, the goal here is not to say Cool, let's like, you know, let's let's just can't wait for the next crisis because it is miserable, but it's also inevitable. So what are we going to do about it? And that's the I think that's where your framework is helpful. And so I appreciate you sharing that. So let's talk to Casey I want to get your advice before we wrap up for today on a just talking directly to the business owner or entrepreneur that's listening to this and they're wondering, okay, in my industry, I'm not in payment, I'm not in a failed payment recovery. How do I build a profitable business in this economy? Or in any economy? I mean, what are really what what are the fundamentals that I should be focusing on? And so I want to first you know, think about just, I want to know what advice you have for that business owner entrepreneur that's trying to figure how to build or rebuild, I mean, right, because a lot of these businesses are having to pivot dramatically. So what advice do you have for that business owner about where they should focus their attention?

Casey Graham 26:31
Number one, focus I always say is pay attention to paying people. We worry a lot about who's not paying, and we spend 88% of books that are written in business or written on marketing or sales. And then you have to rest in the 12%. If I said, Hey, John, tell me a great book on customer retention. There's, like, you know, like, it's super,

John Meese 26:57
super fast, by Pat Flynn... Pretty much that's the only one that comes to mind.

Casey Graham 27:02
Yeah. So the point of that is pay attention to people if you haven't one paid customer literally over the the best thing you can do in situations like this is absolutely be personalized, connected text messaging, emailing, slacking, whatever it is all the time. And the number one question that I that I ask people in our revenue retention managers ask people is, hey, what what are the what is the number one reason that you would fire us? And that you get it? Oh, yeah. What is the numbe one reason you would fire us? If so. And then and have an open conversation about where your customers are. I saw so many people in like the gym industry versus they were kind of like sit and kind of just open versus just calling people and said, Hey, are you thinking about quitting but what can we do? How can we work something out so what? So what we even see on the back end of working with color Here's, if you just have a conversation, just like a normal conversation and say, is there anything we can do to keep you is like, how can we help? if we, if we can bend over backwards? What would it be? And so that's the first place I would focus. I have a friend of mine who just fired 750 people. He's in the rebuilding category, they were going to do 100 million dollars this fall, and now that will be 5 million. And they work with schools that raise money for school. And so what's he doing? Well, he literally has done that. But he instantly was like back at what's the gap that we can fill and how some people when they go backwards, they think about like, Oh my gosh, I was at 100 million now I'm at 5 million. It's like, you got to just start with like, this is day one. If I had a chance to do it all over again, how would I attack this? And so again, that may be an enneagram seven mindset, but I think It's a mindset of resilience and enthusiasm no matter what. And so that's how I that's how I would attack it.

John Meese 29:06
Well, I love that what I'm enneagram one which is very different form an enneagram seven and I think that I still think that that's a that's a wise approach. So

Casey Graham 29:14
well, stress and so I feel you bro.

John Meese 29:18
Yeah, no, no, no I I go to anyone who doesn't know enneagram one I'm the known as the reformer or the perfectionist, very much focused on right and wrong as a constant concern. And so yeah, so when I'm feeling secure, I go to the enneagram seven and so Okay, so that's when we can hang out and have a good party. So but yeah, when I'm, yeah, when I'm stressed, I g to enneagram four which is all focused on emotions and uniqueness. And so I'm just like, I'm just like, yeah, I get really upset the people I'm like, you won't follow the rules. You don't love me.

Casey Graham 29:53
You don't need to hang out very often, then because I dion't follow the rules well.

John Meese 29:59
I'm feeling really secure so.

Casey Graham 30:03
Dude, this is great. Hey, I want to say thank you back the other way. It's a unique approach that I've not seen of like building a business that can be profitable anytime in any economy, you know, especially this one and go in, man, thanks for doing this and adding value back our way and for being, you know, allowing us to serve you know your business that you work with. And thank you. I just want to say thanks.

John Meese 30:31
Thank you, Casey. I appreciate that. So and I so appreciate your time and and your insight here. So where can we find you and learn more about you online? I guess the answers in partly,

Casey Graham 30:43
LinkedIn, I post, I post probably two, three times a day. I break all the rules. They say that the algorithm doesn't buy but I don't care. And I'm just trying to add value there.

John Meese 30:53
That's great. Are you under Casey Graham or Gravy are both

Casey Graham 30:56
Casey Graham.

John Meese 30:56
Great. All right. Well, thank you, Casey. I so appreciate your time. Please. Keep up the good work.

Casey Graham 31:01
Thanks bro

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John Meese is the author of the #1 bestseller Survive and Thrive: How to Build a Profitable Business in Any Economy (Including This One). An entrepreneur himself, John is on a mission to eradicate generational poverty by equipping entrepreneurs with the tools and training they need to build thriving businesses from scratch. He is the CEO of Cowork Inc, co-founder of Notable, and regularly publishes interviews and insight at

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