Bryan Clayton, a co-founder of GreenPal, built his business from the ground up—choosing to not use venture capital or any investment money. He shares with us why that was important to him and what it meant for his business's financial security through tough times, like the Covid-19 pandemic.

Mentioned in this Episode:
GreenPal | Bryan on LinkedIn

John Meese 0:24
Brian, thank you so much for joining me today. How are you doing?

Bryan Clayton 0:26
Hey, I'm great. Thanks for having me on.

John Meese 0:28
Oh, it's my pleasure. It's funny. The podcasting world is one where, you know, you pick guests, and you select guests based on their content and expertise. And then it's only right before you start recording. You realize, wait a second, we're basically neighbors. He

Bryan Clayton 0:40
It's crazy man,

John Meese 0:43
So your base here, so we're talking I'm in right at the moment. I'm in Columbia, Tennessee, and you're in Nashville, Tennessee at the moment. Is that right?

Bryan Clayton 0:48
That's right.

John Meese 0:49
Yeah. Well, we're pretty close by

Bryan Clayton 0:51
I'm a unicorn. I'm I was pretty well born and raised here in Middle Tennessee. So

John Meese 0:55
that's great. I've been here 30 years, so

Bryan Clayton 0:57
Okay, yeah, you're local in.

John Meese 0:59
Yeah, no local. As far as Tennessee goes, my parents now I have to confess I was born in California. And so my parents moved here when I was one and they couldn't understand it. They were like, Hey, we're from California.. And everybody's like, Oh, no.

Bryan Clayton 1:13
Yeah, well, it's getting to be where we're getting a lot more people from California. And I will take it.

John Meese 1:18
Yes, that's true, actually. Well, as we're recording this, it's January 2021. And, yeah, we've actually had I on a co working space and entrepreneurs that are in Columbia, Tennessee. And we've had a few transplants join recently moved their whole business from California to Columbia, or the greater Nashville area. So that's not the focus of our conversation today. But it's kind of a fun connection, for sure. So, so thank you for joining me. Before we get any deeper into our own ramblings. I'd love to actually just give you a chance, Brian to tell us a little bit about who you are and what gets you go to bed in the morning.

Bryan Clayton 1:49
Yeah, so I'm a lifelong entrepreneur. 20 years in business for myself. I've never had a job never worked for anybody. I was into entrepreneurship, kicking and screaming by my father on a hot summer day in the in the late 90s. He made me he came into my room interrupted my Nintendo playing it said, hey, you've got a job to do. You're gonna go mow the neighbor's yard, and made me made me go cut the neighbor's grass. And luckily he did. Because I was just hooked on hooked on business ownership and entrepreneurship ever since then, by the end of that summer, I had like, five or 10 grass cutting customers in the neighborhood. And I actually just stuck with that business stuck with the lawn mowing business as a way to make extra cash and, and then throughout college, I mowed yards to pay my way through college. And when I graduated college, I had to make a decision was I going to go into the job market and basically take a pay cut, or was I going to stick with this lawn mowing business and I didn't have any real desire, any real passion for grass cutting. I didn't want to be a lawn mowing guy the rest of my life, but the business is doing pretty good. I had a couple helpers and, and I was I was had a little profitable business. So I stuck with it and made a little business plan. And long story short, over a 15 year period of time, I grew that into one of the largest landscaping companies in the state of Tennessee, got it over $10 million a year in revenue over 150 employees. And in 2013, that business was acquired by one of the largest landscaping companies in the United States. And so I took that business all the way from just myself and a push mower to me and 150 people

John Meese 3:22
yeah, from your neighbor's lawn to, to quite a few lawns. Yeah.

Bryan Clayton 3:26
And I learned I learned a lot of lessons a building that business just kind of through trial and error. One lesson I learned was everything that's big, start small. And yeah, just for me and a push mower to me sending out 80/90 trucks every day, big team around me great people that helped me build that company. And in 2013, I sold it and I retired and I kind of had a existential crisis like– okay, what what now what, what am I supposed to be doing with my life, and I learned something about myself, I learned that for me, my business is the thing that lends purpose to my life, it is the thing that causes me to get out of bed in the morning, it is the thing that that causes me to level up to become a better person to become sharper, smarter, a better leader, a more humble person. And so I started working on my next business and the idea for my next company, which I'm working on now. It's called Green pal, which is like the Uber for lawn mowing. So you need to get your grass cut, you just download our app, and somebody comes in most of the next day. And I've been at this business eight years, and we have over 300,000 people that use the app to get their grass cut. And we're gonna do $30 million a year in revenue in 2021. So is an eight year overnight success but again, it started off very small,

John Meese 4:37
8 year overnight success, we'll pause and emphasize that for a second

Bryan Clayton 4:46
very, very humble beginnings on this second business, but here we are now where we've got a profitable business with momentum behind us.

John Meese 4:52
That's great. Well, and I wasn't aware of green power before we connected for this interview, but uh, but I went on there and sort of, I mean, right now as we're talking it's not though in Tennessee. At least it's not the season to, you know, worry too much about my grass getting cut. But I did go on there and bookmark your website. I was like, Oh, yeah, we're gonna be talking because as I saw one of the one of the reviews in your website said, finally we're done with the cache underneath the, you know, the welcome mat.

Bryan Clayton 5:13
Yeah. And the crazy thing is that still is like the predominant way this business is conducted. A lot of people ask me who are your competitors, and it is the status quo is people doing it the hard way? Doing it the old way? And so we're slowly kind of chewing our way through that.

John Meese 5:27
That's great. That's great. Well, how is that company going? So you mentioned eight years overnight success. But you know, that's a lot of nights, actually. But

Bryan Clayton 5:35
Yeah, yeah, it was it was a it was a grind. It was a grind getting this business going. My naivete starting this business was one of my, I guess, fortunate aspects of getting started was was that I was naive that that I didn't understand how hard it was going to be. Because if I had known how hard I was going to be, I never would have done it. And so here I am, I'm starting my second business. I don't know the first thing about building software, how to design software, how to market software, but I thought, well, I saw what Airbnb was doing for accommodations. And what Uber and Lyft were doing for ride sharing, I thought, okay, an app needs to exist. For the industry, I've just spent the last 15 years of my life. And I recruited two co founders, and we just went to work. And we genuinely believed that we were just going to pay a dev shop and Nashville, like a development agency to build Green Pal, and then we would market it, and we would just be off and going. And we did that. And we wasted $150,000. We spent, we spent 150 grand with these guys to build green power took them like eight months to do it. We launched it and it was a total flop miserable failure. And we learned enough throughout that process to understand that if we're going to be in the tech business, we're gonna have to learn how to build software. And so we spent the next three years, my two co founders and I working on ourselves to acquire the skills of how to design software, build software, and market software. And so those first three, four years were really tough. But luckily, we had just enough, just enough traction along the way to keep us going.

John Meese 7:04
That's great. That's great. So now that you've built two different businesses, you know, both in the same industry, but in very different ways. I mean, you know, one directly with the services and one is more of the the network for for the services. You know, what really sticks out to you. I mean, you mentioned that one of the things insights it that right away, you mentioned earlier was that everything big start small. But beyond that, I mean, what was it that you took from the first experience building your first business that helps you build a second business even though there of course, there were some bumps, bumps is probably an understatement. But there were some bumps along the way.

Bryan Clayton 7:39
Yeah, there's, there's a lot of stuff, right, the two businesses are very different. One was a blue collar like hand to hand combat in the trenches type of business. The second business is strictly a technology company. And so it's very different managing a workforce of laborers. My team now is mostly engineers, and designers and content creators. So there's the tactical skills of a blue collar type of business in a tech business are very different. But there's principles and fundamentals that are the same no matter what kind of business that you're in, or you're starting. And one thing that kind of looking back 20 years that makes sense to me, now that I didn't really realize it when I was starting both companies is to really look at business as a video game and look at it like 10 levels and or 12 levels or whatever, whatever. And like to only worry and focus about one level at a time. And so like Super Mario World, like all you got to do is get through level one, throw up the flag, and then get to level two. And the problem is, is a lot of people are like getting started in business. And they're worried about like, like Bowser, they're worried about like eight, nine and 10 problems like oh, what's my brand positioning? And and what kind of C Corp should I should I start and what what's my culture going to be? And like, none of that matters. Like let's get $1,000 a month in revenue like, and then don't worry about the next set of challenges. And so for me, like my first business, and even my second one, it really kind of made sense now that I look back 20 years that wow, you know, I was really worried about things that didn't matter in year one of starting Greenpal I really should have met I shouldn't really should have worried about nothing other than Okay, we made $100 last week, how do we make $200 next week. And so if you can really just like distill down, like what stage of the game you're in, where you're at, and where you want to go. And like and focus that down into a set of tasks that you can do in six months or a year. Rinse and repeat. Do that for 5, 10, 20 years, then you can build something from scratch and create something out of nothing.

John Meese 9:39
Well, I think it's a really helpful framework, especially because I myself am still enjoying Nintendo.

Bryan Clayton 9:45
We play we all play Super Mario World. I don't I don't play any of the new video games not because like I'm not because I'm above it, because I can't let that in my house. Because all I'll do is just play it. Like my nephews, my nephews have have these new systems and I don't want anywhere near me, because I know I'll get hooked. So, but we all played we all play Super Mario World. we all we all get it. Look at it that way. Don't worry about Bowser– Let's get $1,000 a month.

John Meese 10:09
Amen, amen. Yeah, man. Yeah, I'm sorry, you're not enjoying some of the good stuff like Nintendo Switch

Bryan Clayton 10:16
maybe when I get this company sold maybe

John Meese 10:21
I hear you? Well, that's great. So I think that's really helpful and I'm sure that to some extent those levels what those are probably varies industry to industry but right away you said kind of like level one it's all about, you know saying you made $100 last week Can you make $200 this week? You know and kind of is it always revenue focused? I mean, in your experience? And you know, is it is that the primary driver of kind of what quote unquote level you're at in your business?

Bryan Clayton 10:41
Yeah, for me, revenue is the the main scorecard for a couple reasons. One, it helps you understand if you're solving a monetizable problem for your customers. So a lot, a lot of times, especially in the tech startup world that I'm in now entrepreneurs will get like lost on these vanity metrics that really don't have any bearing on are you solving a problem for your customer. Because if you're not, they're not gonna pay for it, and they're not gonna stick around and pay for it again. And so that's a really good barometer to understand if you're on the right track is how much money you making. And more than that, how have the people that pay you how many of them are sticking around and coming back, though, like, if you can just focus on that that will never lead you astray. And then the second reason is, is like for me, both businesses I've started were bootstrapped, built from their own revenues. And so it's like, if we weren't doing good things for our clientele, then we wouldn't have the revenue to reinvest in the business couldn't grow the business. And so for me, like, that's the best way to kind of sustainably build a company from scratch is to resist the urge to go out and try to raise investor capital to just like, focus down on what's the smallest version of your business, you can run, make money, reinvest that money, make more money, rinse and repeat. And, and that's why like revenue is one of the best metrics you can focus on. It's like, Okay, how am I growing revenue? It's like, well, we're really trying to do these things. And our purpose is this. Well, yeah, but revenue is the lifeblood.

John Meese 12:04
Yeah. Well, you made a, you know, just comment in passing there by the fact that you so just to confirm both of these multi, you know, million dollar businesses that you've built, were bootstrapped? Is that correct?

Bryan Clayton 12:17
That's right. Both of them bootstrapped with no with no outside capital and no debt. And so Wow, like, and one of the reasons like, as me as an entrepreneur, I take that approach when I was younger, mowing yards, me– like physically mowing yards, I mowed grass, like the first six years of my first company, I had these headsets on and, like, I listened to talk radio all day, and from like, one to three was Dave Ramsey every day on talk radio. And I didn't like him, I still don't. But a lot of his philosophies and teachings and principles are great. And especially if you're starting a business from scratch, and particularly a small business, you know, if you take the Dave Ramsey approach to your personal finances, and your business finances, you're going to win. And it's gonna take a long time, it's going to be a lot of work, but at least you'll sustainably get to the goal, you'll sustainably get to the finish line, you know, going through COVID, like right now, I've never lost a night's sleep because my business is not over leveraged, like, my business is got a good foundation under it. And a lot of that is because I've taken the Dave Ramsey approach in my personal finances and in my business finances of not going and getting a bunch of debt not going too fast, not getting a bunch of investors that we are held accountable to. And so that's one of the principles that I have adapted to my personal life and my business life that I owe a lot of my success to.

John Meese 14:22
Well, on that note, I know that in general, in today's climate, there's kind of like there's I think it's starting to wane but there's been this like, affectionate obsession with venture capital, I would say in the last several, you know, probably decade, especially in the tech sector. I mean, in general, it's kind of like the question is like, how do I get investors you know, but then in the, in the tech sector with software companies, I mean, more than probably any other industry that's kind of like that's the dominant narrative. And so I myself am a fan of bootstrap companies, but I'd love to hear you speak a little bit more to that other than just Dave Ramsey's in your eardrums, you know, very memorable phrasing and approach that he brings to the table. I'd love to know kind of what you see as The primary reason for bootstrapping, you mentioned sleeping well at night. That's good. We all like that. But beyond that, I'm just trying to think about maybe someone who's listening to this, who may be kind of doubting that and saying, Yeah, but aren't you sacrificing like another level of growth? Or would you have had to wait eight years to get your payday of where you're at now, if you'd had taken venture capital on me?

Bryan Clayton 15:21
Great question. Really good question. And I wish somebody had had asked this question. Eight years ago, when I was starting this business, and I wish I had listened to somebody perspective on it. And so which is the best path going and raising a bunch of money and building a big company or going slow and low and bootstrapping your way? The answer is both– the both, both paths are fine, but they're very, very, very, very, very different. So So the reality is the chain reaction of events that occur when you raise a seed round of funding to start your business. And then you have to raise a series A, B, C, D, a chain reaction to events that lead you to a binary outcome, either you're going to have this huge, massive success or zero. And the reality is, for most entrepreneurs, that's a bad bet. And if you're young, and you're in your 20s, and you want to swing at the fence, for a Grand Slam, you know, you can go for it and still recover. But if you're later in life, you're in your 40s, you know, it may, you may never recover from that. And so, the reality is, is that if you go down that path, you have to build a really, really, really big business. And the chances of that are 1/100, or 1/1000. And, you know, like, like one of the big machines that pumps out a lot of these companies is Y Combinator in San Francisco. And and these guys are have their fingerprints on Airbnb, Instacart, Stripe, a bunch of big, big, huge companies. And there's probably 50 that really matter. What you don't realize is they have funded like 5000 companies over the last 15 years. And so if you just do the math, you start to realize, like, wow, this is the NFL of that game, right? Still yet. It's like a 1/1000 shot. So that's the reality, like if you want to like go take that bet, take that bet like I'm we're in Nashville, a million people or I don't know, a million, but what probably 10,000 people a year move here because they think they're going to be the next Keith Urban. That's a bad bet. You're not like maybe, but you're just No you're not. And so the thing is, is like if you go down that path, you need to equate it to if you're going to move to LA and be the next Leonardo DiCaprio, or if you're going to move to Nashville and be the next. I don't know, I don't really like country music, but be that be the next

John Meese 17:38
Taylor Swift,

Bryan Clayton 17:38
Taylor Swift or whatever. Yes, that does happen. But it's a one in 1000 shock. And so that's, that's venture capital. Like it's no different than signing a music deal. Yeah, it's no different than taking acting classes in Hollywood, in terms of the dynamics and how it unfolds. And so for me, like when I started green power, like, that was the the, the narrative still is like, okay, you gotta go raise money. And then I started like, looking at, like, I gotta run all around town and take meetings in San Francisco and go to New York to try to get a $50,000 check. Like, I'd rather just work on a product and make 50 grand and and so that's what we did. Like, the idea of running around trying to like, grovel up a million dollars in capital just didn't appeal to me as a way to do it.

John Meese 18:22
Well, that's great. Well, I appreciate you sharing that. Well, it's good to know that you you've achieved that level of success. Because I mean, I'm familiar with other bootstrap companies. And I guess we should define terms here. You know, even though you and I swim in this, you know, that when we say bootstrap, we really mean self funded. I mean, essentially, that, you know, yourself and your co-founders, you may have invested some of your own money. And it sounds like somebody did to pay that dev company in Nashville, $150,000.

Bryan Clayton 18:45
No, we invested all of our own money and like, for the first couple years, took no salaries. And so, but that was just the investment for sure. Yeah, that was but we were self funded. And, and for me, like revenue is the best form of funding for most any business. Now, that said, look on your phone, the first puddle, the two screens, every app on that phone is venture backed. And so to have that outsized success, and if that's really what you're going to try to go for, and you're going to take the 1/100 or 1/1000 shot, then you're probably then yeah, you need to raise venture capital, but just know that the the chances of success are are isn't as an outlier. And yes, people do it every day. But it's usually a bad bet for most entrepreneurs.

John Meese 19:30
Well, and awareness is kind of overrated. I mean, if you think about it for a second, I mean, before you and I connected, you know, I live in Tennessee, not too far from you were both connected to the Nashville entrepreneur center and yet never connected. I had never heard a GreenPal before. No offense, right. It's not on my phone yet. So I had never heard of GreenPal before. But it sounds like you guys are doing just fine.

Bryan Clayton 19:50
Yeah, we're default alive. We're never gonna go out of business. We're making money. Nobody's gonna snatch this thing from us. That's one of the advantages of pursuing a novel. Sexy industry like lawn mowing is that there's not a whole lot of people playing in it. And And so yeah, we're always going to be around and eventually we will chew our way through and become like the default way this gets done. And that's probably our biggest challenge right now is, is how do you become like the Uber for lawn mowing or the Instacart for lawnmowing, without throwing a billion dollars at it. And so that's the challenge now, Now on the flip side, is if we had raised five or $20 million, we'd be out of business by now. Because when you do that, you have to you have to 10x the business in a year, and you have to, you have to show this hockey stick growth, or burnout. So there's a junkyard on businesses that raise a bunch of money that they're burnt out.

John Meese 20:44
When you said, you said, I think you had, was it three years of kind of what would have been if you were venture capital backed, what would have been unacceptable?

Bryan Clayton 20:50
Unacceptable. Yeah. Unacceptable. And we would have thrown money at the problem, their money, and we wouldn't have put up the numbers. And they said, you know, what, we're out, we're not gonna follow on on the funding. And then next thing, you know, you're, you're burning two or 300,000 a month, and you've got, you know, 10 grand in the bank and lights out.

John Meese 21:09
Yeah, I don't know, their funding status. But I do know, one of your competitors. It's also Tennessee bass, you know, went out of business this year, or this past year– Tackle, you know, and, you know, in major, major part because of COVID-19 restrictions on, you know, vendors entering people's homes, because they do more, they did more than lawn care, you know, you know, all kinds of Home Services,

Bryan Clayton 21:26
Man, I mean, they, they did a good job of executing on a great product, great marketing. And, and, you know, the proprietor of that business has some pretty deep pockets, and I think he just probably got tired of throwing money at it. And you know, it's a tough business, it's not something that you can take over the world in three years. It's a 10, year 20 year game– the game we're playing?

John Meese 21:48
Well, and so yeah, so you probably know more than I do. I don't know the details of their financing. But you know, like seeing that kind of thing. It's like, yeah, that was that was a brand that was starting to really take off. And, you know, really to become, I mean, I've used them as a customer before, you know, suit, you know, just like taking a real problem, which is like, Oh, you have all these things you need done in your home, and you don't want to go through the yellow book, you know, calling plumbers and, you know, random, random handyman to come do stuff at your house, you want an app where you can just click, this is what I want, and someone can do it. And so I thought that was a huge, you know, shame when they closed this past year.

Bryan Clayton 22:17
Yeah, it would have been divine, if if magically, they could have made that work. But there's, there was some strategic things there too, like for us, you know, when you are trying to make the Uber for whatever, you really gotta be focused on just that one thing,

John Meese 22:30
right? And we're focused only more than one thing.

Bryan Clayton 22:33
Yeah, lawnmowing, let's make that as easy as possible. But when you're focused on plumbing, electrical work, gutter cleaning, snow removal, lawnmowing, handyman services, cleaning services, it's hard to be the best in the world at all those things at once.

John Meese 22:45
That's true. That's a good point. Add on that, actually, they may have taken that lesson with them. Because I know the former CTO of that company is actually a member at my co working space and entrepreneur center. And they saw him in some of the dev teams, when tackle closed, they started a company called Spackle. And it's basically a similar concept, but it focuses on they have a clever name for it, I couldn't tell you off the top my head, but it's basically it's like, it's commercial, you know, like painting and cosmetic improvements to commercial buildings. So it's like, you know, you you finish the build on a big, you know, new facility for your business. But so like the construction crews done, but I need someone to come in to kind of like add a wall or add some outlets or paint a couple rooms, you know, like that kind of stuff then. So it's a similar concept, and obviously inspired by Tackle, it's Spackle. But again, it's more like you said, it's they're not trying to be the marketplace. They're trying to be that's one service that one category.

Bryan Clayton 23:36
Yeah. And it's a fine line, when you're setting out to build a tech company. And you know, like you're building like the the app for home cleaning services. And what you don't realize is that you you really are just in the home cleaning business, you know, you're basically building a tech enabled home cleaning service, and your customers don't care about how clean your app is, and how great your technology is. All they care about is is my floor clean. Is there any mildew in the bathroom? I don't give a crap, what version of of Angular you're using. All I care about is are there dust bunnies on my kitchen floor? And that's what a lot of tech companies got wrong. When the Uber for x kind of movement started in like 2013/2014, you know, 10s of billions of dollars were thrown at these ideas. And there's a junkyard of them. Uber for maid service, Uber for laundry service, Uber for massages, Uber for valet parking. And the problem was is like the guy that built Uber for valet parking, never valet parked the car in his life. It had he wouldn't, he would have taken a different approach. And so that I think a lot of these things like start with, like what they call first principles, which is like, okay, let's say you want to build the Uber for home cleaning. Well, you should probably spend three months and clean, clean houses for a living.

John Meese 24:55
Because then you learn the real problems that real people have real solutions because that's how you say No one cares what code you're using in your app or whether it's got the fancy, you know, new, whatever, you know, they don't they really care, does it solve my problem?

Bryan Clayton 25:09
That's right, your engineer is gonna spend two weeks on reducing the load time of the landing page from three seconds to a second and a half. And not gonna spend three weeks I understand why didn't the cleaner clean the ceiling fan? And so that's, like, all they care about is are you solving my problem? Does the app help me do that? They don't care about how good the technology is.

John Meese 25:32
Yeah. Well, that's great. So well, thank you for sharing. Yeah, I think that's, yeah, that's actually, yeah, we're definitely totally aligned there that's in my in my book Survive and Thrive, I kind of go into this framework of really business at its core is but comes down to, you know, creating a real solution to a real problem for real people, you know, and that's where a lot of venture capital, unfortunately, I mean, it's not just it's not that venture backed companies are exclusive in their ignorance to the the fact that there's a customer at the end of the funnel, you know, with with a problem. But the reality is all that pressure that high stakes creates a scenario where people spend crazy amounts of money and time doing crazy stuff that if you just backed up and said, like, does anybody actually need that?

Bryan Clayton 26:14
Yeah, and the money papers over a lot of the stuff, you know, and it's like, you wonder, these are really, really, really smart people, but you look at like stuff like WeWork, which Oh, yeah, like, it's a $90 billion company where we're gonna take it public. Okay, we can only get 40 what Actually, no, it's it's a $4 billion dollar company. It's like, what is it? Like? It's just insane, like how these things spin out of control. The reality is, unless you're like lucky or really skilled, usually, as an entrepreneur, you're you're left with a zero or, or you've wasted four years of your life, 10 years of your life, right having to show for it.

John Meese 26:46
Whereas self funding bootstrapping, there's I mean, every day, there's a new incremental win. I mean, essentially, like you don't there's not there's, you're not chasing a specific goalpost. I mean, you make it you might set your own goalposts up there.

Bryan Clayton 26:57
Yeah. And the thing is, is like, you know, when we first started talking about raising an angel round of funding, you know, we try to hustle up a million or $2 million dollars in funding was spent all year doing it. You know, we raise an angel round every month now, like, like, and we pump it right back in the business.

John Meese 27:13
Do you mean, your customers?

Bryan Clayton 27:14
Yeah, yeah, I'm in terms of revenue, so and so. But it's taken us eight years, eight long years to get here. And so I you know, for me, it's like most people quit it, they've certainly would have quit in the in the time that my co-founders and I grinded on this thing. But for me, like quitting wasn't an option, because I'm going to be working on my best idea all the time. That's just the reality. That's what it is. I'm going to be working on my best idea. It just so happens, I don't have a whole lot of good ideas like this. All I got to this is it. Like Mark Cuban says, You only gotta be right once. And so it's like, for me, GreenPal was and still is my best idea. I don't have any other better ideas to throw my life force into. And so yeah, I'm getting out of bed in the morning, and I'm coming down to this office, and I'm gonna grind because that's just what I do. That's great.

John Meese 28:04
Well, it sounds like you guys are doing some really great things with this company. And I look forward to becoming a customer when

Bryan Clayton 28:10
When you use it. Hit me up on the on the on the back channel and let me know how it's going.

John Meese 28:15
I will. Alright. Well, Brian, thank you so much for joining us today. So where can we go to learn more about you know, you and your company and what you're up to?

Unknown Speaker 28:21
Yeah, so life's too short to cut your own grass. So if anybody listening to this needs to get their lawn mowed, just download GreenPal on the App Store or Play Store and you'll get hooked up with a great lawn mowing service in less than a minute. Anybody wants to get it me LinkedIn. I've been hanging out there a lot more lately. They've done a really good job with improving that platform. I mean, it's it's really what it should have always been. So Google, Brian Clayton, GreenPal, LinkedIn. And you'll you'll find me if like, you listen to my story, and you think that hey, this guy might be able to help me with this specific problem, and give me some advice. lay that out in a message and I'll respond and I'll help you with my experience. But yeah, do you think Yeah, and I love doing it?

John Meese 29:02
Yeah. Well, good. All right. Well, Brian. Well, thank you so much for your time today and keep up the good work.

Bryan Clayton 29:06
Hey, thanks for having me on, John. I enjoyed it.

John Meese 29:08
You got it.

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John Meese is the author of the #1 bestseller Survive and Thrive: How to Build a Profitable Business in Any Economy (Including This One). An entrepreneur himself, John is on a mission to eradicate generational poverty by equipping entrepreneurs with the tools and training they need to build thriving businesses from scratch. He is the CEO of Cowork.Inc, co-founder of Notable, and host of the Thrive School podcast.

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